Why You Might Consider Jumping Out of a Plane, with Alexey Galda

Paddy: Not once did you talk about the actual incredible fear that most humans would feel jumping out of an airplane in a. Squirrel suit did fear ever enter your melon, during the learning

of this?

Alexey: of course I'd be lying if I said, no, I'm not a psychopath. It's, it's terrifying. Um, even every year after you haven't jumped for a few months, uh, every first jump of the season is, is is nerve wracking at times. 'cause you're not sure if you still remember how to do

Paddy: Okay. I, I can relate to that. 'cause I feel like every winter, right? I put my ski boots on, I'm like, yes, we're going skiing, i'm like, do I remember, do I remember how to do this? And then it takes like one turn or one like bump to throw you off axis a little bit and you're like, okay, I, I remember how to recover

and my muscles are, are waking up.

Is it kind of like that?

Alexey: that's right. the reason why it's a bit more difficult is that you can't just, you know, stop and, and reset.

Paddy: Yeah.

Alexey: you know, snowplow, you can't, pizza, pizza, pizza. You're, you're in it.

Paddy: There's no pizza in the [00:01:00] air, man. What are you talking about?

Alexey: MUSIC

Paddy: PADDYO INTRO

I have this recurring dream, where I’m standing at the top of the stairs in the house I grew up in and then, inexplicably, I’m falling head first toward the landing at the bottom. At first, I float slowly, and can even make out little details on the wall in my peripheral vision. But then things get blurry as I speed up. The landing is rushing toward me faster and faster, and then right when I'm close enough to make out the grain in the wood … I shake awake. Milliseconds before my face smashes into the floor.

For as long as I’ve been sleeping, I’ve had this dream. Now, before you ask to examine the lumps on my head, let me assure you that this is pretty normal. A fear of falling is an innate human emotion, a survival mechanism that protects [00:02:00] us from harm and keeps us alive. I’ve spent my adult life in the mountains, climbing lots of sketchy ridgelines and scrambling along some pretty big cliffs, but I have never stopped being afraid of falling. I have friends who paraglide, and who do that weird paragliding-meets-skiing thing known as “speed flying,” and their insistence that I give either a try is met with an emphatic “No frigging way, dude.”

The fact that there are people who seem to suspend this innate fear and fly through the air for fun is both fascinating and confounding to me. What do they know that the rest of us don’t? Do they just have Olympic-sized amygdalas overriding their prefrontal cortex? Are they smarter or dumber than everyone else?

Researching this topic found me both today’s guest, and an answer to that last question. Champion wingsuit pilot and quantum physicist, Alexey Galda is decidedly [00:03:00] not dumber than the rest of us.

PAUSE PAUSE

Alexey grew up in Serbia, went to the UK to earn a PhD in theoretical physics, and then came to the US to research and teach at the University of Chicago. Since September of 2023, Alexey has worked in quantum computing at the pharmaceutical giant Moderna, where he uses super computers to test theories about mRNA. If you have no idea what I’m talking about, stick with me, we’ll explain here in a bit.

Not so long ago, Alexey decided he needed a hobby, so he took up sky diving. He developed a PhD-level fascination with aerodynamics, which led him to wingsuit piloting. Wingsuits are the so-called “squirrel suits” that let skydivers move horizontally through the sky at speeds exceeding 200 miles an hour; skydiving is to wingsuiting what those school bus races are to F1.

This is no longer a [00:04:00] hobby for Alexey. He’s both a US and World Champion, holds the Guiness World Record for the longest glide in a wingsuit, and he used his scientific knowledge to design wingsuits that led to … ahem … quantum leaps in performance. In Alexey’s mind, his sport and his job are two completely different things, but after talking to him, I’m not so sure. He’s a pretty unique guy, and I’m not convinced that he could be such an exceptional scientist if he wasn’t an exceptional wingsuit pilot, and vice versa.

More importantly for those of us whose weekend plans don’t include throwing on a superhero suit, jumping out of an airplane, and exceeding 200 miles per hour with no engine, Alexey has some pretty interesting things to say about fear, and how grappling with it positively impacts everything we do.

MUSIC

First Things first, burnt toast. What's your last humbling and or hilarious [00:05:00] moment outside

Alexey: there was in the middle of a really fast wingsuit flight, diving towards the ground at nearly 200 miles an hour. Everything felt slick, fast, you know, aerodynamic. Until suddenly I felt this weird tugging on my left hand, pulling me sideways. So hard. I almost sped out of control, So I glanced over and I could not believe what I was seeing.

One of my blue latex gloves, which I put on to keep my hands a little warmer, had inflated in the Airstream, like threw a gap on my wrist

Paddy: So you had, you had like a balloon hand.

Alexey: This thing had gone full on balloon animal mode. It was still fully intact, but had blown up to the size of a massive watermelon still attached to my hand and somehow not popping.

So in that instant, it didn't really feel like I was flying a wingsuit anymore. It felt like I was being hijacked by a giant smurf head,

Paddy: Oh

Alexey: violently trying to, to rip my hand off. so imagine this big blue, wobbly thing just flapping along beside [00:06:00] me, forcing me into a slow, ridiculous sort of spiral turn while I'm supposed to look all streamlined and serious.

So yeah, needless to say, that was one of the most humbling and hilarious, uh, moments of my flying career 'cause nothing really ruins the extreme athlete vibe. Quite like realizing you're basically tether to an angry inflatable smurf balloon at 200 miles an hour,

Paddy: my God, dude,

You are a fascinating human being, and this is gonna be so much fun.

All right, let's get into it.

MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

Alexey, in secondary school, your area of study was mathematics and physics. You earned a BS in mathematics and physics from the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology. You received a PhD in theoretical physics from the University of Birmingham in the uk.

You did your postdoc work at the Argonne National Laboratory outside Chicago. You worked at the University of Chicago as a research scientist and assistant professor. You're currently working in quantum computing, so I have to ask, do your shoulders hurt [00:07:00] from carrying around that big old brain yours?

What's that thing? Weigh like 25 pounds. Jesus dude.

Alexey: I, we all have a job.

Paddy: I mean, obviously like complexity and navigating through in and around it is both your hobby and your job. What is it about quantum computing, theoretical physics that makes it your thing? You know, I've interviewed a lot of very smart humans on this show, and a lot of folks have told me that they have this insatiable drive to solve puzzles.

Is that the thing for you?

Alexey: I think so, you know, my background in physics and computational science, basically forces me to naturally think in terms of rigorous math and modeling, which drew me towards this very technical discipline of wing performance, skydiving. So they kind of, uh, work well together. And, this curiosity and technical analytical mindset, works well with, sort of carries over into my professional life at Moderna as.

Where I work, as you said, as a quantum computing scientist. So the [00:08:00] connection between the two very distant things, you know, being a skydiving athlete and a computational scientist is that I use advanced algorithms to optimize mRNA sequences and also to optimize my flight to achieve better results, in, in a very similar way.

Paddy: you use quantum computing to predict secondary structures of mRNA. The shape formed by the mRNA strand as it folds in on itself upon interaction with nucleotides and DNA.

Now, not for me because I totally understand what I just said, but just in case that we have any toddlers listening to the show, can you please explain to me as if I am a kindergartner, what in the hell your job actually is?

Alexey: Sure. Uh, it's really simple.

Paddy: totally. It seems like it.

Alexey: first off, what is mRNA? messenger, RNA? It's a thing that already exists in our bodies, and it's simply carries messages which are [00:09:00] instructions that direct our cells, what to do, for example, to fight a disease. now what I do specifically is mRNA design, which is a computational problem, to design a particular sequence of these nucleotides that will achieve the right function the reason why we need to use supercomputers and, and fancy tools like quantum computing is because the number of possibilities is just astronomical. And so classical computers struggle to find the right solution a lot of the times. And that's why we need new ways of solving this problem, to make mRNA more stable, to basically make the, the drugs a more efficient.

Paddy: And so you are. Working in quantum physics, And then in 2015, you become friends with a guy named Joe, who just so happened to be a professional Wingsuit pilot. He gets you into the sport, and then a year later you join the US National Wingsuit team.

Now you have, uh, more medals than you could shake a cat at. You have world records. You're in the Guinness Book of World Records. You're, a [00:10:00] world champion. this all seems very preposterous to me. I can understand how a person goes from zero to hero in a sport like skiing, for instance. You know, you start with beginner gear. , You're on the, uh, bunny hill learning the basics. You work your way up to extreme terrain. And expert level skiing over many winters, many seasons, many years. But I don't understand how you do that. Jumping out of an airplane and cosplaying as a flying squirrel. Is there a bunny hill in the air that I am unaware of?

How does one even start with this sport of wingsuit piloting?

Alexey: So there actually is a bunny hill like that now. Uh, it's called an indoor wingsuit tunnel. Uh, there's currently only one in Sweden, but I think they're building more around the world. But back when I started in 2015, that wasn't, and all you could do was just, uh, you know, you just go and jump and

Paddy: What do you mean? What do, what do you, what do you mean? You just go and jump? Had you skydived at [00:11:00] all before, this first wingsuit flight?

Alexey: So I started skydiving in 2013, uh, the year after I moved to the States. You do need to have 200 skydives at least before you can even start putting on these, inflatable mattresses,

Paddy: Squirrel suits. Yeah.

Alexey: right? So by, 2015, I already had 200 skydives and I was just starting to fly in smallest wingsuits.

So there is some prep work. Uh, you don't

Paddy: Yeah.

Alexey: buy equipment and, and, hike it off the plane. 2015 was the first, the year of the first US national. In fact, and it just so happened that the place where they were held was at my home drop zone in the suburbs of Chicago where Joe and I were jumping.

So everything was just lined up for me to give it a try. I didn't even have to travel. I knew I had a few months to figure out what this discipline is. and that was the year when the first ever World Cup happened as well. So I already knew there's dozens of people [00:12:00] who compete. All I had to do was to figure out how they compete and what they do.

The things we compete in are time, distance, and speed. There's only three types of tasks, and then what you do is you jump outta a plane and then it's scored somehow.

Right? So you wear this GPS device. On your helmet, you land, you plug it into a computer and the result comes out. So then we need to understand what's this result, right? So let's take distance, for example. and the number that we try to maximize is simply the distance that we cover over the ground within a certain fixed altitude window

of thousand meters.

and so what I was doing back then was, uh, you can look at the charts of these sort of plots of these vertical speed, horizontal speed, all these parameters that are measured by the GPS device, and they represented as sort of scientific plot. So I was already in my,

Paddy: You

Alexey: in, in, in

Paddy: data, data. This is, I'm gonna figure this out. Okay. Okay.

Alexey: This was very natural to me.

I was like, okay, I need to understand what do I do with my body in order to [00:13:00] replicate these. Curves that I'm seeing on the screen, and then you go and make a jump and then you look at your plots and you try and correlate what the increase in horizontal vertical speed translates to in terms of your body position or what you do with your body.

And step by step, you try to understand what it is that you need to do at different points of the jump, to build as much energy as you can, and then use that in the most efficient way to get the most distance out of that jump.

Paddy: I mean, okay. My mouth is a gap here because I understand that you have a very scientific brain and everything that you just said seems very scientific, very analytical. Not once did you talk about the actual incredible fear that most humans would feel jumping out of an airplane in a. Squirrel suit that inflates and turns you into a miniature plane, essentially a miniature glider. did fear ever enter your melon, during the learning

of this?

Alexey: of course I'd be lying if I said, [00:14:00] no, I'm not a psychopath. It's, it's terrifying. Um, even every year after you haven't jumped for a few months, uh, every first jump of the season is, is is nerve wracking at times. 'cause you're not sure if you still remember how to do

Paddy: Okay. I, I can relate to that. 'cause I feel like every winter, right? I put my ski boots on, I'm like, yes, we're going skiing, i'm like, do I remember, do I remember how to do this? And then it takes like one turn or one like bump to throw you off axis a little bit and you're like, okay, I, I remember how to recover

and my muscles are, are waking up.

Is it kind of like that?

Alexey: that's right. the reason why it's a bit more difficult is that you can't just, you know, stop and, and reset.

Paddy: Yeah.

Alexey: you know, snowplow, you can't, pizza, pizza, pizza. You're, you're in it.

Paddy: There's no pizza in the air, man. What are you talking about?

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Alexey: Have you ever done a skydive?

Paddy: Uh, no, never. I have, thought about it.

my brother has done like a handful, and he says that you lose the sensation of falling, which sounds really cool and interesting, and also a little bit terrifying.

Alexey: The reason I'm asking is [00:15:00] because a lot of people don't really remember, that experience in full that well, because it's such a sensory overload

So I can't describe to you in full details what that first flight felt like because I only remember bits and pieces but the key thing here is that you don't actually just go by yourself, even though you do have 200 sky dives and you've been sort of working towards this forward flight, uh, as opposed to a free fall, just vertically down.

You do have a instructor who will spend a few hours with you walking you through different scenarios and what you need to do and what you shouldn't do and what could happen and what won't happen, um, before you even jump out of a plane. And then you go together on the plane, you sort of board this small aircraft.

About 20 people get in the, plane. And then you go up for about 20, 25 minutes to roughly 12 and a half, 13,000 feet

and you wait for all of the fun jumpers. So all of the regular belly jumpers, we call them people who just fall down, uh, [00:16:00] to exit the plane. 'cause wingsuits are usually last. So you watch everyone exit and you're pretty much the last people on the plane besides the pilot.

And you make your way to the door. So now you're standing next to the open door in an aircraft that's going, you know, at a hundred something miles an hour and now your next thing is to jump out of the plane in a controlled way wearing this straight jacket, right?

It's small. But it's still, it gives you forward. No, very noticeable forward speed. and that's why I black out. I don't remember how that jump went

Paddy: Jesus

Alexey: it from, from what I recall. It was pretty, it went fine, you know, there was no issues.

Paddy: here talking to you, so I guess

it went good,

Alexey: It's sort of like learning to ride a bike at some point.

You just get it that

Paddy: but if you fall off the bike, you've got like three feet to the ground, you'd like, you know, you're not falling at terminal velocity.

Alexey: right. Well, what I do remember very distinctly was this moment when you get it, because it's a very different feeling [00:17:00] from between falling down and then moving forward and actually realizing that what you do with your arms and legs has consequences sort of on your forward speed. And I remember. I just happened to be in the right body position that I felt that I'm moving forward. I was in flight and in control

The realization that you no longer in this one dimensional free fall. Like without a wingsuit, you're just falling down. You can't do very much in terms of moving laterally and with a wingsuit, You have a three dimensional playground, now you can go left and right.

You can go, we can go up now by like 150 meters, almost 500 feet you've just like opened up extra dimensions to the fun that you can have in the air you can chase clouds, you can fly around clouds. It's, it's insane.

Paddy: What they, I mean, you do realize, like, the way you're, this sounds like video game stuff.

Alexey: And I think that's why people love it.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Whether it's, uh, gliding flight and a sail plane or regular plane or a wingsuit. fundamentals are about the same. You have a [00:18:00] range of speeds that's accessible to you, and if you go too slow, you will stall. So you'll stop flying and you start falling down like a brick.

And so that's, uh, you shouldn't slow down too much. That's the line. You, you, you shouldn't cross On the other side of the spectrum, if you go a little faster, you start going, further and further. But then if you increase the speed even more, you start just going down more. So, you need to learn the range of speeds at which you can fly safely, flee, you learn that I can get to this cloud, but not that one over there five miles away. I can't make it there. and I know that I need to turn back later and then open my parachute closer to the drop zone, the things that you start building is, is this intuition and, and skill and then you translate that into your body orientation, your body position

Paddy: What is actually happening with your body? Like are you stiff and like flexing the whole time? Or are you a loose noodle ?

Alexey: Super stiff, um,

Paddy: Okay. The stiffer, the better. The better the flight.

Alexey: right? Because fixed wing gives you a [00:19:00] better performance, better glide than a soft mushy drag you wing. It's basically tensioning the suit in all directions the suit is, is made of fabric.

And so you want to avoid having wrinkles that will sort of slow you down. So you tension the suit, shoulder to toes, arm, you know, hand to hand, uh, so that it's as straight as possible. Um, and also you make your body as sort of straight as possible so that you look kind of like a wing, it basically feels like planking in the starfish position for a few minutes, which is really hard.

Paddy: Yeah. Really hard. And it's gotta be, exhausting, like at the end of, competition or a training weekend. you gotta be just absolutely worked, right?

Alexey: Absolutely. Before I started Wing suiting I used to make 10 skydives a day, and that's totally fine. You're maybe a little sore In flying these big suits, uh, you make five, six jumps a day, and that's a total max at that.

To that point,

Paddy: You're, you worked.

Alexey: you're done.

PUASE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: You're a skier and so I'm sure you've experienced this, living in [00:20:00] Utah on a powder day, you get into the zone, right? you are fully in your body, but also completely detached from your body, and you're in this like, unconscious competence and it's like my favorite place to go. or thing to experience in the outdoors do you get into the zone in flight or do you have to stay super focused mentally, you know, because you're falling to the earth?

Alexey: I, I think those two are connected. I think yes, we do get in the zone, but that. State of flow that people describe. It's actually the state in which you're very focused and, and very alert. Um, I'm not sure I would make a big distinction, distinction there, but it's, I think a lot of different things, a lot of different sports that people do.

We all experience the same state of zone, you know, being in the zone or state of flow. when we get to a certain level, when the muscle memories allows us to almost disconnect our parts of our brain and only, and fully allocate the rest of the brain to the little things that we [00:21:00] need to keep track of and then just let the body do the work

Paddy: Is that how you know a flight is going really well, is when you get into the flow state?

Alexey: it definitely helps. but also we, unlike skiing, when we fly, we get, immediate. Live feedback on our numbers and how well we doing. I also have this heads up display that, gives me a lot of the flight information, like my speed, my everything, and so I can see immediately, how well I'm doing. But there's definitely a strong correlation between just knowing when you're doing, when you are doing the right thing and you're in the zone, and then seeing good numbers, and that's a positive feedback loop that

gives you more motivation to stay in that state of flow

MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC

PADDYO VO:

More from the incredible mind of Alexey Galda after the break.

MIDROLL MIDROLL MIDROLL

Paddy: A lot of the truly extreme athletes that I've talked to say like big wave surfers or big mountain skiers, stress to me, That they don't do it for the adrenaline. They want to be taken more seriously than that. Everyone has their reasons for doing [00:22:00] what they do, and the full spectrum of those reasons is interesting and thought provoking.

But I mean, we all go outside to get our heart pumping and get some yippees, right? And extreme athletes pursue that, at least to a point to this, like incredibly over the top level that the rest of us don't ever want to get close to. Can't even touch it. So with that in mind, what is your relationship with adrenaline and how much of Wing suiting is for that rush?

Alexey: I think it's very personal and for some people it might be about adrenaline. and I can relate to that feeling because I also do speed flying and paragliding and para motoring. And I know the feeling of you, you do, you know, you running off the mountain hoping that this little parachute over your head inflates well and then carries you quickly down the mountain.

and then you land and you're like, oh, I got away with, with this impressive feat of, uh, you know, not having to hike for two hours down and, and then just landing in three minutes. So this feeling of getting, getting away with [00:23:00] something is what gives you, I think this adrenaline rush. People experience this when they do base jumping a lot.

now wingsuit flying for me is different. It's more like going to the gym. You don't do it for the adrenaline. At least I don't think people do. It's hundred percent result and goal, focused activity.

Paddy: Oh, that's soi interesting

Alexey: you go and everything that seems so crazy to most people, like the wingsuit, the plane, the skydive itself.

This is all just the equipment that allows you to have this two or three minute exercise during which you're working on specific muscles and specific things that you're doing with your body. And then you can check your results and see if you did better or worse. And then you train by repetition to be better and you compete against yourself in a way.

So in that sense, it's not so much about the adrenaline, it's a gym type of mindset

Paddy: For most people I talk to, time Outdoors is at least partially, , or in some cases, entirely about finding peace and quiet, you know, reflection [00:24:00] and perspective is peace and quiet even possible at 13,000 feet above the ground while you're traveling 200 plus miles an hour.

Alexey: It is very possible. Um,

Paddy: How dude, how

Alexey: well,

Paddy: what are you?

What?

Alexey: no, it's amazing. Um, the reason, part of the reason why I moved to Utah was for the, for the mountains and for the landscape here. ' During a wingsuit skydive, you have a few minutes to really enjoy the beautiful Views we of the lake, of the mountain ranges that we have here of the Wasatch and the other mountain ranges in the area. So even though it, you're not flying for hours like I would in a paraglider over the of the mountains, you still have a few very precious moments to just forget about everything else.

'cause you know, your body's flying and it's not quiet, it's not peaceful. You're flying at a hundred something miles an hour. It's very noisy. But at the same time, the.

Paddy: I mean, it's like, it must be, a sensory overload.

Alexey: Right. But at the same time, the visuals that you're getting are very therapeutic. I think [00:25:00] at least I can, I I find them and then when you open your parachute, things slow down a bit, quiet down, and you still at three or 4,000 feet, you can still enjoy the, the views.

Paddy: Well, a few Things. Defy logic and common sense, like a person flying seemingly under their own power. So once you break this perceived boundary, how does it impact your view of the world? Back on the ground? Does the realization that you can do the impossible seep into the rest of your life, your career, your relationships?

Alexey: It's a very good question. Um.

Paddy: thank you.

Alexey: Like I said, I think it's more of a therapy type of thing. It doesn't need, necessarily need to translate or affect how you see the world or how you interact with people. But the fact that you, there's this thing that you can go and do on the weekend where you do this crazy three-dimensional flight through clouds it just positively affects the rest of your life. Because you have to stay a hundred percent focused on what you do. You don't think about all the [00:26:00] troubles that, that you sort of, you leave that on the ground, like people like to say, because I could make an argument that if I was just flying and then I'm just driving back or, and I'm stuck in traffic, I'll actually be more calm.

I'll feel accomplished. I will feel that I have this amazing moment, several moments of pure joy that most of these people around me won't get to experience, and I can just sit there and reflect on that instead of being impatient about getting to where I'm going. So I think it can be a positive, force in your life to have the, these getaway type of activities,

Paddy: what about when you're back at the lab, Like you were a physicist, long before you were a Wingsuit pilot. In what ways has Wing suiting impacted your work and vice versa? You know, like do you have a story about being back in a lab after soaring through the air and you're like, oh, actually, a-ha,

Alexey: An aha moment related to wing sitting. Huh? Uh, good question.

Yes, there was one,. that comes to mind. when I simulate [00:27:00] my skydives, I use a particular type of an algorithm called genetic algorithm or evolutionary algorithm for optimization. We wrote a paper, uh, on quantum computing where I used this same algorithm that was inspired by my work, in Wingsuit so a lot of things translate in that sense. it's not a huge aha moment, but those are probably the most polar opposites things that I can think of.

Skydiving, aerodynamics, and quantum computing. There's very little overlap between the two, so it's hard to find something that would translate, but some algorithms do,

Paddy: well maybe if there's not like a direct link. I'm just wondering if like, time in the air because you've spent so much time, in the flow state, you were able to tap into that while in the lab and, you were able to solve a problem or, or even ask a question that you wouldn't have otherwise asked?

Alexey: Maybe not so much because of the flow state, but because of the pressure. Right. flying makes me a sharp scientist, I think because it constantly trains [00:28:00] my analytical skills under pressure. , And being a scientist makes me a more analytical athlete as well. So there's, there's this feedback loop there at this higher level, where each side strength strengthens the other.

Paddy: Well, your job requires you to think. Incredibly deeply about stuff that may or may not be real. Does that create a need to put yourself in the least theoretical place possible, which is falling to earth out of a plane?

Alexey: maybe, you know, back when I was a theoretical physicist, I was working on such fundamental concepts that like 10 people care about in the world at most, at best. You

Paddy: Okay.

Alexey: That's why I sort of did this transition in my career to something more practical. And I left academia and I became, quantum computing scientists working on applications in pharma

so I, I was already gravitating towards doing something more practical in my life and I think skydiving fits in that. sort of in the same, category of doing something really real, really [00:29:00] practical. Uh, because like you said, who knows if the things that I work on are even real, right?

The quantum, action at a distance, you know, all these really weird concepts. how do we know that they're real? So, yeah, it, there's definitely a big part of my life that is as a result, devoted to doing something practical. I really love working on the house, I really love, doing things with my hands, uh, at home, as a directly sort of opposite to what I do in front of my computer, back in the day when I was a PhD student, you spend years working on a paper. and it's something that may or may not ever be useful to anyone in like 10 or 20 years. It's really hard to continue finding motivation to do this kind of work for decades.

As a result, we tend to compliment that type of activity with something very practical, very real,

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Paddy: Looking at your career in wing suiting and you know, the use of your big old brain and how it has directly, positively [00:30:00] impacted, uh, your, your flying is in, 2022, Just about a month before nationals, you decided to custom design and 3D print winglets which, if I'm understanding correctly, were kind of like these, foils that you put on, your hands at the end of the wings and they greatly increased your performance. Talk me through that design process.

Alexey: It was one of those eureka moments, you know, prior to this, for about five years, we've seen very little, Evolution of the suit design. And as a result, our results, our scores pretty much stayed where they were for almost five years. And I was getting level impatient, so to speak.

Um, and I was thinking, how can we make the next leap forward in wingsuit design so that we can fly faster or cover more ground? at the same time, I had a 3D printer that I was tinkering with, and I thought of printing a wing extension to this fabric suit. Which sort of protrudes outward extending your span.

[00:31:00] That surely must improve your results, right? Well, I didn't know if it would actually improve things or not, or maybe it would just add so much drag that it'd be detrimental. So in that year, I started experimenting with, these attachments, which were perfectly legal according to those rules that year.

and I was just blown away how much difference it made. and then since then, the rest is history. You know, it's 2025 and these types of extensions are now built into serial wingsuits, and available to everyone we get about 10 to 15% performance improvement each flight thanks to those things. And so that was one of the greatest, you know, most memorable moments of my life so at my work, the analogous, moment would be if and when quantum computing that I work on helps. Us designing new medicine, for instance, right? That when this, the piece of work that I do goes into something that ends up being produced,

Paddy: Have, have you had that moment yet?

Alexey: no, not yet. And so

Paddy: but do you feel like that's the thing, like that's the motivation

every [00:32:00] single day to go back into the lab and keep working is I have the potential to make a greater impact on those

Alexey: absolutely, this would, be like my personal Nobel Prize kind of moment. It would be the pinnacle of my career, at least in quantum computing, produce something valuable, like something very practical.

Paddy: Do you feel like there's a common thread between your two vocations?

Alexey: I sometimes like to think about leading separate lives. There's the professional life and there's my personal life and there's my, life as an athlete and I quite enjoy not mixing them too much. And so I don't. Actively look for analogies and, and common threads. I quite enjoy that I'm able to do these separate activities as a single person,

Paddy: are You saying that one is a respite from the other?

Alexey: Yeah, I think our minds need different things at moments in time, and so you can stimulate your brain with something physical on the weekend and be it your hiking or your other sports, and then sort of train your other brain [00:33:00] muscles at work. Human minds are just so crazy interesting that as many different stimulants in forms of activities that you can, can allow yourself to do the more.

It will affect your development in, in a positive way? I think

Paddy: It seems like you're just, you're kind of describing like

the difference in similarity of Batman and Bruce Wayne, like both the same person, both completely separate people.

Alexey: right. And I like to keep them that way.

Paddy: Yeah. Well, do you feel more like. Bruce Wayne, or do you feel more like Batman or does it depend on the day?

Alexey: it totally depends on the day.

Very often. I'm neither

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: Do you believe that Wing suiting has made you better at quantum computing? Do you believe that your work at Moderna has made you better at Wing suiting?

Alexey: Absolutely. Let's start with wing suiting. Having the determination to train for a season or multiple years to achieve something that very few get to achieve. And uh, like being at the top of a particular, very small, [00:34:00] but still a particular sport. trains you to be very determined for years, for really extended periods of time.

And then once you achieve that, that gives you this self-confidence that is really hard to gain otherwise. I think if, if I paid to go and climb Mount Everest, I would not feel as accomplished as having achieved what I have achieved in wing sitting. , I'll be saying this very cliche things, but you know, you believe in yourself more.

You have this sense of I can do this. And that translates to literally everything else in your life. And that's how it makes me a better scientist and the better everything else and then from the other side, the challenges of doing research, like banging your head against some problem that you can't crack for months and.

Paddy: yeah.

Alexey: Also teaches you how to overcome these plateaus in your performance in sport I really like the idea of doing these very polar opposite but weirdly complimentary things.

Paddy: Well, I don't [00:35:00] know if I'm gonna get into quantum computing Alexey. but the way that you have described wing suiting makes me kind of wanna try wing suiting, which probably my wife is not gonna like hearing.

MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

It is now time for the final ramble. One piece of gear you cannot live without.

Alexey: Honestly, duct tape. If you can't fix it with duct tape, you probably shouldn't, be out

Paddy: you know what I always say? If you can't duck it, fuck it. I call it ski bum welding.

Duct tape is so good. Nobody has said that. I also though, am a little concerned that you didn't say. Parachute because that quite literally is gear that you can't live without.

Alexey: Right. Well, that would've been too simple, but, and I wouldn't advise mixing duct tape and prachutes

Paddy: Yeah.

Alexey: either,

Paddy: A

Alexey: but on literally any other piece of skydiving equipment, uh, like on a typical training day, I probably have some gorilla tape on my helmet, [00:36:00] on my wingsuit to achieve the different things. So, yeah, I think it's pretty important

Paddy: Oh yeah. I think it's some of the best gear out there. Great answer. Awesome answer. Okay. Best outdoor snack.

Alexey: I have to say stroop waffles and raisins.

Paddy: Oh, wow.

Alexey: The stroop waffle is just purely sugary happiness. It feels, feels like dessert. When you're sitting in the rock or on a chairlift

Paddy: for sure.

Alexey: and, and the raisins, honestly, they're just there. So I can pretend I'm eating

Paddy: Yeah.

Alexey: while I'm inhaling caramel syrup, cookies at 10,000 feet

Paddy: Nice. Great answer. Great answer again. What is your hottest outdoor hot take?

Alexey: right? Um, flying your body through the air is actually the easy part. The hard part is looking cool when your glove inflates like a giant smurf head.

Paddy: Man, that is a, that is a great and classic callback. Nice work. Alex. I like your style. Yeah. So have you stopped using latex gloves during

Alexey: I [00:37:00] have, and every time I see someone using them still.

Paddy: Hey, wait, wait, wait, buddy. I gotta tell you a story.

Alexey: Right. Unless it's in competition and it's one of my, yeah. No, it's, it's a safety

Paddy: on your hands. How about your feet? Maybe at the top of your head too. Yeah, you should use that.

Alexey: MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

PADDYO VO:

Alexey Galda is a super smart human who jumps out of perfectly good airplanes on a regular basis. He is the Associate Scientific Director of Quantum Algorithms and Applications at Moderna. Among other things, he uses quantum computing to predict secondary structures of mRNA. Alexey is also a world champion wingsuit pilot. He's a member of the US National wingsuit team, the 2025 World and USA champion, and since 2015, he's earned 20 US medals and 19 World medals. He is very good at what he does. Follow his adventures on Instagram at [00:38:00] Alex Dot Born To Fly and stay up to date with his quantum computing at Alexey Galda Dot Com.

 And as a reminder, please remember that we want to hear from you, because we're makin' this daggone thang for ya. Email your pod reactions, guest nominations, the answer to the question: if your ear was a mouth would it eat regular food or things like Q-tips?, and whatever else you want to tell and/or ask us to Outside Podcast At Outside Inc Dot Com.

The Outside Podcast is hosted and produced by me, Paddy O'Connell. But you can call me PaddyO. The show is also produced by the storytelling wizard, Micah "i'm not nervous. i'm resigned...why, did someone say something...oooohhhh nooooooo" Abrams. Music and Sound Design by Robbie Carver. And booking and research by Maren Larsen.

The Outside Podcast is made possible by our Outside Plus members. Learn about all [00:39:00] the extra rad benefits and become a member yourself at Outside Online Dot Com Slash Pod Plus.