Losing Your Leg and Finding Your Calling, with Paralympian Brenna Huckaby

Paddy: Let's say that we have some listeners who love the Olympics but have never watched the Paralympics before.

What should they know

Brenna: If you're a sports fan, there's zero reason you will not be a para sports fan like. Para sports are awesome. You'll love it. So watch it. The second thing, you might be shocked that there are not very many sports. Which means you have more bandwidth to fall in love with the athletes not, not to toot my own horn.

Paddy: No good sell. This is great.

Brenna: The last thing, which I think is very important is we are elite level athletes. Sometimes we suck, like meaning as humans, we're assholes.

So like, boo us or like watch us like you would any other athlete, Like you might see somebody in a sit ski completely explode. Like they're going so fast when they have a crash. It is like anything you've ever seen don't go oh, that poor disabled guy.

Go like, oh, that guy just slammed so [00:01:00] hard. Holy cow. You know? , Give us the same energy you would the Olympics because we are athletes and like we are all trying to go home with a gold medal. We are pushing our limits and like, it, it's really cool to watch.

Paddy: MUSIC

PADDYO VO:

Have you ever felt like the passenger of your life rather than the driver, like you're sitting shotgun watching someone or something drive you to an unknown destination? Woooof, I know I sure have. Sometimes, it's just little things like I dunno what my day is gonna look like and I'm thrown a curveball I don't appreciate, to bigger things like career insecurity, family dynamics, or like when I was still dating and constantly wondered just where in the hell my heart was gonna end up. Feeling as if you don't have agency in your life sure as hell is scary. And taking that agency back isn't necesarily as easy saying "hey, move over, I'm gonna [00:02:00] drive now!"

A simple google will reveal plenty of self help articles and tips on how to restore owership and direction to your life. You can journal in an attempt to be more self investigatory, stopr waiting for tha big promotion and start networking and hob hunting. Some bros recommend morning ice baths or saunas...or some kind of sauna ice bath combo at some ungoldy early hour that makes you so super sweaty and slash or cold that it supercharges your motivation. Prioritizing fitness and time outside is pretty ubiquitous in anything you'll find, because pushing yoursefl physically has a special way of sending extra positive ripple effects into the rest of your life. And if you do it long enough and hard enough you may even fidn yourself living your dream and standing a top a podium with a gold medal around your neck. It did for professional snowboarder [00:03:00] Brenna Huckaby anyways.

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Brenna is a world champion snowboarder with more hardware than a Lowe's. But she didn't start out as that lil kiddo prodigy we often hear about. Far from it. Brenna grew up in Louisiana, which historicallly is not that great for snowboarding. She was a nationally ranked gymnast as a teen, and had dreams of competing in college. When she was 14, Brenna developed persistent knee pain that turned out to be a rare osteosarcoma. She became disabled in 2010 at the age of 14, when her right leg was amputated above the knee as part of her cancer treatment. Now, if you're thinking "oh that poor girl," hold that thought. 'Cause Brenna doesn't want your pity. She wants your acknowledgment.

Brenna learned to snowboard when she was 15 at the National Ability Center in Park City. During this first-ever riding trip, she grabbed the steering [00:04:00] wheel of her life and pointed it toward representing the good ole US of A in the Paralympics. She moved to Utah to pursue snowboarding while still in high school and two years later she nabbed her first of 5 World Championships. In 2018, at her first Paralympics Games in PyeongChang, Brenna won 2 Gold medals in Snowboard Cross and Banked Slalom. Then in 2022 at the Games in Bejing, Brenna won gold and a bronze. But what is extra notable about that is before she could even starap into her snowbaord, Brenna first had to take the International Paralympic Committee, the global governing body for the Paralympics, to court just to earn the right to compete. And this March she'll compete in her third Paralympics in Cortina.

Brenna is one of the most decorated and talented para snowboarders ever, one of the most outspoken athletes of the entire paralympic [00:05:00] movement, and just a downright phenom of an elite athlete. All of this is remarkable and singular, but what makes Brenna so intriguing is her ability to seemingly always have her hands on the wheel, headed to where she wants to be.

First things first, burnt toast. What's your last humbling and or hilarious moment outside

Brenna: I think my last humbling moment outside is I went to go get a few laps with my family last week and I forgot my prosthetic leg.

Paddy: Duuu...,

Brenna: Yeah.

Paddy: I don't even know what to say in response to that. I mean,

Brenna: think it would be like the one thing I had,

Paddy: excuse my ignorance here. So do you have a day-to-day driver and then the, like, I'm getting rad prosthetic?

Brenna: Yeah, exactly. Yep. Exactly.

Paddy: It's a, a no-go for the day-to-day driver to go snowboarding.

Brenna: Uh, I mean like I felt like I probably could have made it work, but then I was like reminded that if I got [00:06:00] injured. There's something important happening at the end of the season.

Paddy: little thing in Cortina happening soon. Yeah.

Brenna: So we decided it wasn't worth it. but yeah, totally forgot my leg.

Paddy: So what did you do? Did you, were you just like, the ski lodge lizard, did you just like drink hot cocoa and like chat to folks and watch television? What did you do?

Brenna: that's so, that's like not my vibe. I left my family and went thrifting, so that was great.

Paddy: Cool. Okay, so actually this might be like nice for you in the future. All right, hubby, like you gotta take the kids and do the thing. I forgot my prosthetics, so I'm gonna go buy some stuff.

Brenna: You're getting it.

Paddy: Smart moves. Smart moves. Okay. Alright, let's get into it.

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You are gearing up for your third Paralympics this March in Cortina, and you've written and spoken a lot about how important it is to you to be called a Paralympian and not an Olympian.

What exactly about that distinction is important to you?

Brenna: [00:07:00] I think there's a lot of reasons to be honest, but what I'm landing on lately is it has taken me a long time to be proud of being a Paralympian because there's a lot of internalized ableism that I've had to understand within myself around what it means to be disabled and what it means to be a disabled athlete.

when I first became disabled, I went on a Make-A-Wish trip in 2012 to watch the Olympics. And on this trip I made a low key announcement to a reporter. And I was like, yeah, I would love to be in the Paralympics. And I said, but do people even care about the Paralympics? Because you can't see it.

You can't watch it. I've never seen athletes like it feels embarrassing almost to say, I wanna go to the Paralympics because it doesn't seem like anything anybody gives a crap about. And I feel like now I know how much work goes into being a Paralympic athlete and I want to be honored for it.

while a lot of people use the term [00:08:00] Olympian to describe Paralympians there's a good faith reason for it. I feel like it kind of erases the Paralympic side. You can call us a Paralympian and it can still mean what you mean. It want it to mean if you were to call me an Olympian.

Does that make sense? 'cause that was a big story.

Paddy: Yeah. No, I think it makes sense. One of the intriguing things that you said there was that you had to yourself get over a bit of ableism. Internalized ableism. What do you mean there? was it frustration? anger, um, shame.

Brenna: Hmm. it was. A mix of things. I think the biggest one is I never wanted to identify with the word disabled because the way that I had learned about what it means to be disabled is like you can't do all the things that you wanna do or you're less than. And I became disabled around a time where everybody was like, oh, you gotta call disabled people differently abled or handy capable and like all of these super cringey terms.

Um, but anything besides disabled.

Paddy: Okay.

Brenna: I [00:09:00] had to better understand what it means to be a disabled person and then own it. And then now I'm like, oh yeah, I'm a disabled athlete and I compete at the highest level for disabled athletes and that's awesome.

Paddy: Mm. do you think it was, Like a, an internalized switch of how you categorized what the word meant.

Brenna: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Paddy: Instead of something like, oh, this makes me different or less than, which is completely, squashing in many ways. Was it, was it more like, oh, I'm taking actually great pride in this.

Brenna: 100%,

Paddy: Was one thing that made you make the switch or was it a series of events?

Was it just maturing in age?

Brenna: I think it was honestly the internet, TikTok happened and I, yeah,

Paddy: is, that is wild. Because usually you're saying our people aren't like, you know what lifted my shame? Social media.

Brenna: no, a hundred percent. But hear me out. Hear me out. Early days, early days of TikTok, I had gotten on there and [00:10:00] all of a sudden I was bombarded by different disabled people, not in the paralympic space, sharing their lives, sharing their stories, educating me on like what it means to be disabled, with different disabilities.

I just had a better understanding of the community that I represent. And I'm like, oh, just because I'm a Paralympian doesn't mean I'm some, like better than you disabled person. Like, I just, I, I felt a lot of pride in the different types of people in the disability community and I was like, I'm proud to be a part of that.

Paddy: Oh, that's, I mean, that's amazing. really What social media did for you is, yeah, build community made you feel less alone.

Brenna: Exactly.

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Paddy: been an athlete your entire life, and early on you were a competitive gymnast.

And in a recent interview with olympics.com, you said that in gymnastics, you quote, don't have a voice, you don't have a say. What did you mean by that and how did it affect your competitive gymnastics when you were younger?

Brenna: If you grew up doing gymnastics in the early two thousands, you know exactly [00:11:00] what that means.

Paddy: Well, I did not, so I need to know.

Brenna: yeah. Yeah. it's very much dance monkey dance. Like, I'm gonna tell you what to do and you have to do it. And if you don't do it perfectly, you owe me like 10 no fault beam routines. And you have to continue working past, like, through lunch, just like a, a crazy culture of like, don't question authority.

You don't have. Any like personal agency and you're a robot.

Paddy: And also, forgive me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the knock on gymnastics that the judging is like super subjective? It's like if you catch the judge on the wrong day, it's like you're gonna get points deducted for no particular reason.

Brenna: yeah. And you see a lot of the judges, like the same judges over and over and over again. So like, if they have a grudge, you're done that season,

Paddy: That seems so whack.

Brenna: it is so glad. I'm not a gymnast anymore,

Paddy: Well, so yeah, your introduction to snowboarding at 15, then, [00:12:00] did that switch offer more freedom and more expression by comparison?

Brenna: 100%. but it took me many, many years to get to a place where I could fully. be in that self-expression and not beg my coaches to tell me exactly what to do and how to do it and how to behave. Like I had to go to therapy and rework some of that.

Paddy: Is it because of the cancer diagnosis and the amputation, or was it also in part because you were stuck in this box of I'm a gymnast, so I'm supposed to do the right thing and someone needs to tell me what the right thing is? Was it all of the that

Brenna: probably all of that. But I think yeah, where I am now with snowboarding where I like, feel like I'm my own person and I can question my coaches and I can make my own choices. Like that was, had a lot to do with my gymnastics upbringing.

Paddy: is that kind of freedom and even like, I'm gonna speak up for Selfism, is that something that drew you to it initially or did you realize that distinction once you started pursuing it more seriously [00:13:00] and, and had the switch of like, oh, I actually can like, take this on, like very seriously at the like highest level of competition?

Brenna: I think it was a little bit of both because I was around people who grew up in the ski and snowboarding world, so just seeing how they interacted, I would be like, wait, that's so cool that you just like, you know, like, we're doing this one training, but you're over here like jumping off of these little like, side hits and, but we're supposed to be doing this, but you're over here.

Um, what the heck? And so, um, I like knew that that was something that was in the world, but um, I didn't know how to like, break out of that mindset and like allow myself to go screw around, uh, even though we're supposed to be doing one specific thing.

Paddy: Well, it seems interesting to me that you got into it in your teens rather than getting into it younger. 'cause you seem to me kind of like a natural born snowboarder. You know, you're very opinionated. Uh, you marched to your own drummer. You seem fearless. You've got this DIY ethic about you, bright blue hair.

You know, [00:14:00] you've got this little punk rock flare that like snowboarding loves and, and attracts like. So how aware of board sport culture were you when you were growing up? how did you end up a gymnast and not a skateboarder?

Brenna: Well, I have to say, while I have a lot of trauma from my gymnastics, it was probably because I'm not a natural born rule follower in that way. Like, I felt like I was punished so much in my gymnastics career, which kind of like. Shamed or you know, like it stunted that, uh, expression in me. because yeah, like if you were to talk to anyone in my family, like I'm outspoken.

I will follow rules if they make sense. If they don't make sense, why are we doing this? Um, so that's kind of how I naturally am. But yeah, I think I just got like punched down too much when I was a gymnast and I just had to like break free of that in my twenties.

I can remember getting into it with our TD at the time because he basically was telling us that [00:15:00] like women's, oh, our technical delegate, I think is his name, uh, or his title, just telling us basically that like, women's snowboarding wasn't as important to gain numbers and to have around.

So like we need to be better behaved basically. 'cause we're on the chopping block. And, uh, I remember getting into it with him, uh, in front of all the other athletes but, now because I feel like that theme has continued with like women's snowboarding, women's Para snowboarding, I was able to fight for women's snowboarding in a, in a much better way.

but I don't think I would've been able to do that had I had not practiced speaking up for myself, even though it didn't go perfectly.

Paddy: What about actual riding? is there a moment on snow where you were like, oh, this is the freedom that I've been looking for? Like, oh, thank God I have this thing.

Brenna: I would say immediately but not because of what we've been talking about. For me, snowboarding gave me an immediate sense of freedom. [00:16:00] 'cause I felt like I could hide from my disability.

Paddy: Oh, how do you mean?

Brenna: um,

Paddy: that. That is super interesting.

Brenna: yeah, First of all, loved that you wore long pants, baggier, gear, pants. You couldn't see that I had a prosthetic.

and then two, like when I'm riding, you really can't tell. I mean honestly, it's probably like people are watching me sometimes 'cause I can arc some bender, like I know how to throw on a carve. So I

Paddy: yes. I have watched you snowboard, and this is correct. That is a truthful statement.

Brenna: So I feel like maybe people are like, oh, like watching my snowboarding, rather than being like, oh, she has one leg. At least in the early days

Paddy: Do you still feel like that? .

Brenna: Now. I mean, there are moments where I kind of like to have that just. Secret. But I would say now I really like to do the opposite and show my prosthetic leg, because it's like, oh, that's the kind of things that disabled people can do if we give them prosthetics, if we give them opportunity, if we give them resources and access.

Now it's like a whole, a whole other freedom thing of like, look what we can do.

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Paddy: I do wanna talk about something you brought up often in the [00:17:00] media, which is the tension between being viewed as an inspiration versus being viewed as an elite athlete. You've been very, very public about your belief that stories about Paralympians focus too much on the inspiration narrative and not enough on the top tier athleticism.

You once said, quote, we've heard the stories around Paralympic athletes and it's around their disability, how they became disabled, how they've been an inspiration because of their disability, but we don't hear about the stories they want to tell and about being an elite athlete and the amazing stories that exist within our sports world.

Can you explain your idea and your feelings here more?

Brenna: Yeah, this one's kind of complicated because of course, as an elite athlete, or as a disabled person who's doing things that the majority of people aren't going to do, of course there's gonna be a level of inspiration there. I think where it gets misplaced is when the story is so, is so focused [00:18:00] on the surface level, how you became disabled, the surface level, like, oh, poor thing.

Like I can't believe she went through that. If she can do that, I can do anything like that. Kind of that, the way that, that, that inspiration story's told I think we're so beyond that. and I know for myself, like if you were to ask me some of the hardest moments of my life, there's more than just my leg.

Well, that obviously was a really big moment. I would say my mental health has been something that has impacted me just as much in one that I wanna share and like my motherhood journey and all the things that just make us like well-rounded people. I guess it's less about being an inspiration 'cause I understand that we, we are, but how that inspiration story's told.

Paddy: Well it seems also like what you're saying is what you don't like is like this lever of pity that is being pulled on your life story. And in terms of that life story being told, especially publicly in the media, doesn't give the full picture. Is that what it [00:19:00] is? It's like I, I, stop pigeonholing me. Also, I don't need your goddamn pity.

Brenna: 100%. gosh, , If I had like a dollar for every time in public like that was told to me like, you know, nothing about my life, nothing about who I am, my athletic accomplishments. But here you are coming up to me at the grocery store and telling me that I'm an, I'm an inspiration.

Like why? Because I wanted to like

Paddy: Because you're pushing a shopping cart. Yeah. Oh, I was gonna, I was gonna ask you this. Like, I have para athlete friends who will be like, out and about and they'll like open a door or something, and someone stops them and is like, oh, your courage. And they're like, I'm just getting coffee. Like, get out my face.

Is is that the most annoying thing? Is that be because it's, uh, what? Belittling because it's demeaning.

Brenna: Uh, yeah. All. Um, my next favorite is when that happens. So literally that experience is constant and then it's usually followed up with, but how, how did you lose your leg? And you're like, great, thank you. [00:20:00] Now I gotta like,

Paddy: which is insane. 'cause it's like, it's not like you would go up to any Joe Schmo on the street and be like, Hey, could you tell me about like, some really hard shit from your past? I would just love to, I know I'm a random human, but let's have a little therapy sesh. Okay. I mean, it's, that's an insane thing.

It's like, when strangers come up to a, a pregnant woman and like touch their stomach.

Brenna: Yeah. No, literally. And I think, 'cause I've, I have, you know, a lot of disabled friends and I've posted about this on the internet so many times and people are like, oh, I don't mind when people do that. And I'm like, that's great that you don't mind. I do also, I have like a face that says, come talk to me. Um, because this happens to me.

This happens to me weekly.

Paddy: No kidding.

Brenna: And yeah, some people are like, oh, it's not that often, like for them. And I'm like, girl, I don't know what I've got written on my face. But it happens to me almost every time I leave my house. I'll leave it that often.

Paddy: Do you find that because of that, you like, don't wanna Go get groceries, go get coffee or something? Or if you do, you're like, I am definitely gonna wear [00:21:00] pants.

Brenna: I'm at peace with it now after like, many, many, many, many, many therapy sessions.

Paddy: Okay.

Brenna: yeah.

Paddy: Praise be to therapy.

Brenna: Yeah, 100%.

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What gets lost with like the inspiration around disabled athletes is that athlete part gets missed.

Paddy: Mm it's always a celebration of what, like they can do this in spite of, rather than look how incredibly athletic this human being is.

Brenna: yes, 100%. During watching the Paris Games, you know how many people are like, oh, I could do that.

Paddy: I mean, it comes out with every Olympics and Paralympics, the armchair experts who are like, you know, I only watch skeleton once a year, but That guy from Russia is not doing it correctly.

Brenna: yes. So I feel like as para athletes, we have that on steroids

Paddy: Mm.

Brenna: it's like, uh, actually, first of all, I outride you with one leg. And also if you were missing one leg, like, no offense, but I don't think you could do what [00:22:00] I'm doing. Even if you had the prosthetic, like I, it's hard, like, people just think that they could do it because they're able-bodied,

Paddy: So then what do you say to people, or what do you want to say to people who miss this point?

Brenna: in public. Like when it happens, I'm just, I'm, I'm nice. I just wanna be like, if you only knew, if you only knew what I've accomplished, then like, I don't even know if you would have the nerve to come up to me right now. Like, I think you would be intimidated maybe. I don't know. I would be like, I get it's that way with other para-athletes where I'm like, like Oksana masters when she's around I'm like, like I, you're so like the goat.

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, Whether or not my disability is relevant to my story, it 100% is. For so long in the para world, it was almost expected for you to share. I mean, it still kind of is, but like back then it was like, that was the story, the disability and like overcoming, I think that's another one that like drives me nuts.

'cause like I'm still living with a [00:23:00] disability. So like there's no overcoming. It's more of like a navigating. but I would say like,

Paddy: to put it.

Brenna: the expectation to have to dig into your trauma for the masses and share your disability story like was so expected within para athletes. now it doesn't, I feel like it doesn't have to be, I think we need to allow para athletes to decide and for a lot of them, yeah, like that story might be.

Crucial and important and impactful for them to share, but I don't think it needs to be expected.

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PADDYO VO:

More from paralymian snowborader Brenna Huckaby after the break.

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Paddy: Let's say that we have some listeners who love the Olympics but have never watched the Paralympics before.

What should they know and what do you want to tell them?

Brenna: I've got a few things. The first one is if you're a sports fan, there's zero reason you will not be a para sports fan like. Para sports are awesome. You'll love it. You'll love it. So watch it. The second thing, [00:24:00] you might be shocked that there are not very many sports. In the winter games. We have curling, ice hockey, snowboard, Alpine and Nordic.

there's not a ton of different sports to watch, which means you have more bandwidth to fall in love with the athletes not, not to toot my own horn.

Paddy: No good sell. This is great.

Brenna: The last thing, which I think is very important is kind of the whole theme of today we are elite level athletes. Sometimes we suck, like meaning as humans, we're assholes.

So like, boo us or like watch and be like, I can't believe, like they just like did that thing that was seemingly uns sportsman, like, or whatever. Hopefully everybody's sportsman like, but I just, you know what I mean?

Paddy: Yeah,

Brenna: shit happened. Stuff happens and like. Watch us like you would any other athlete, Like you might see somebody in a sit ski completely explode. Like they're going so fast when they have a crash. It [00:25:00] is like anything you've ever seen don't go oh, that poor disabled guy.

Go like, oh, that guy just slammed so hard. Holy cow. You know? , Give us the same energy you would the Olympics because we are athletes and like we are all trying to go home with a gold medal. We are pushing our limits and like, it, it's really cool to watch.

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Paddy: With athletes who compete like you at the top level of their sport, we often hear about the grit and the determination that they have, which allows them to be the best of the best. But with you, there's got to be more to it than that.

I have to believe it because you nabbed your first world title only two years into your competitive career. Like that just doesn't happen. That's not a real life thing. So do you think that you possess specific kinds of skills and instincts that are unique to you? Characteristics that run deeper than the typical will to win?

We hear about so often that make you one of the best of snowboarders in the world.

Brenna: My gymnastics background helped a lot. [00:26:00] I have strong body awareness, strong air awareness. I have. a fear, not fearlessness, but like, I like that feeling of pushing through fear so I think that gave me a strong edge.

a natural thing that I have that I know other athletes that are currently competing also have, which also makes them really strong competitors. And just overall really good snowboarders is this like, desire to see where the limits are. , Para snowboarding is so young. It's, there's so much untapped potential and I think we're all just like dedicated to figuring out how far we can all go.

Paddy: What does that look like? are you grinding yourself to a pulp all the time in training and , in the weight room and then when you're out on snow, like, what exactly are you doing to, push the limit of the sport?

Brenna: definitely Unfortunately in the gym a lot, um, I hate

Paddy: hate relationship. Yeah. You're like, I like doing it in past tense. I like having had worked out.

Brenna: yes, yes, yes, yes. Relatable. But I know [00:27:00] like if I weren't as strong as I am, I would not be able to do nearly half the stuff I can do on my board. ' there's still so much I wanna be able to do and I'm like, I think I need to be stronger.

While yes, training is important, I think where we're really going to see like The progression of the sport is actually outside of the Paralympic space and more just like the free riding and like, a lot of us are more into like big mountain riding, than Park, but there are athletes that are starting to push the limits and parks.

So I think just like overall snowboarding is really where we're gonna start seeing a lot of that progression. But of course that translates into border cross and in bank slalom.

Paddy: Well are things like, fearlessness, determination, , a willingness to push your own limits. Are those types of characteristics specific to your athletic career? Or do those things show up in business, in your marriage, in motherhood? Like what about snowboarding shows up for you in your off snow life?

Brenna:  I love that. You get to a certain point in your sport where [00:28:00] like progress is just like invisible.

Like you have no idea if you're getting better. you're just like trusting the process, trusting your training. You're not seeing the leaps and bounds that you may have once have. Which I feel like is very similar to parenting. I have no idea if what I'm doing is right with my kids and I, you know, I have no idea and I'm like beating my head against the wall, like trying to do my best.

But then just like in snowboarding, all of a sudden you'll have a, like a small little breakthrough. It'll be like just tiny moment and you're like, oh, I have been on the right path. And I feel like that's the same with parenting. 'cause all of a sudden your kid will say or do something and you're like, you do listen.

Like you are like, you are growing and like doing the thing. So I think that has definitely helped me in my parenting.

Paddy: does your competitiveness show up in your parenting? Does it show up in your marriage?

Brenna: Uh, it used to, but I definitely have toned it down.

Paddy: How did it used to, did you guys like compete in things?

Brenna: Well, let me just say like, [00:29:00] my husband hasn't played a board game with me in so long.

Paddy: my God, dude, I can totally relate to that. What is it? Connect, connect Four.

Brenna: doesn't. Yep. All of them.

Paddy: my wife, the way that her brain works can just see patterns like everywhere. And she just, the face that she makes when she's like, didn't see that Bink, you know, and drops the little tile in and it's just like, I can't do this.

Brenna: That's amazing. I absolutely love that. I also like just share No mercy. Um, so show no mercy. My kids. I think our last game that we played and I try, let me tell you like I'm really, I'm like, oh yes, this is just a casual game of, sorry, there's no casual anything,

I'm not gonna cheat, but I, I may try to distract you and get in your head and yeah, like, really try to get you off your own game.

Paddy: So is family game night like a thing in your house or is that like outlawed?

Brenna: It's like few and far between, but my 9-year-old loves it. Like she's down, [00:30:00] she and she's competitive. So yeah, it's, it, it still happens, but, uh, a little bit less than it used to.

Paddy: Okay. Well, I'm, I'm honestly like not shocked to hear this because in the research for this chat today, it just kind of became clear that there's no way that your competitive fortitude is only for banked, slalom and border cross courses, like it was on full display in a pretty landmark lawsuit to compete in the 2022 games.

Can you explain the reason why there was not initially a way for you to compete in the Paralympic games in Beijing and what you did about it? Because it's kind of bad fricking ass

Brenna: Yeah, so going back to the conversation earlier where I said, I'm a rule follower. If you can tell me why this rule exists and it makes sense, I'm down for it. But if you can't, I'm not about it.

Paddy: Yeah.

Brenna: Exactly. There are two [00:31:00] categories for women's lower limbs, so leg impairment snowboarding.

So we have LL one and LL two. LL one is where I compete and it's to put it visually, above the knee amputees or a like neurological disability that is similar, that is impairing you somewhat similar to an above knee amputee. Included in this would be also a double below the knee amputee because that's just objectively harder than just missing one leg below the knee.

so LL two is to put it visually below the knee amputees or something similar. And these groups compete separate because it's not really fair for them to compete together because having only a below the knee amputee where you have use of both of your knees is just objectively easier on a snowboard.

We were competing separate in 2018 where I won my first two gold medals. After that games we had a lot [00:32:00] of LL one women and LL two women, uh, retire. So we didn't have the numbers, very many women competing anymore. And so, uh, the IPC was like, okay, since you guys don't have enough to make a heat, you can compete with the LL two women at a disadvantage if you want some competition.

And to be able to like, yeah, like actually do the sport of border cross the way that you wanna do it with multiple people. And of so myself and the other woman who, has been around in L one, were like, fine, that sounds good to me. Like, we'll compete combined. No worries. So for World Cup events, we competed combined.

We were also told we would be able to compete combined at the games. as long as there's not enough women, don't worry about it, you'll be together.

When the qualification guide came out in 2021, we noticed that there was no language that was allowing the l ll one women to compete.

And it was very confusing because we had been operating and competing [00:33:00] together as if this were gonna happen at the games we were all getting used to it.

so to find out like, hey, you're excluded was confusing. And then very anger inducing. So,

Paddy: devastating

Brenna: and devastating. Yeah, like I just put

Paddy: been training for this and competing for four years. What are you talking about?

Brenna: Exactly. And I've been competing at a disadvantage this whole four years. Like that's crazy. So, when we found that I out. We asked for clarification.

You know, why is this choice being made? are there ways to, change it, at the time the IPC was like, we, they gave it zero reason zero why the choice was made that we couldn't compete. So the only logical reasoning was disability discrimination I'm here to compete. The whole purpose of the Paralympics is for representation and to be a catalyst for inclusivity in society.

And I'm like, okay, so you're telling me the whole reason we're here is for inclusion, but you're excluding me. Like, that's crazy. How can we find a way that like we are [00:34:00] included?

I find support and a lawyer and we, myself and the other woman, like teamed up together to just make a bigger impact. , And we won the injunction on the basis of disability discrimination and we were allowed to compete combined and added disadvantage at the 2022 Paralympic games.

And. We have more LL one women now, um, which is kind of a bummer. It's a great that they're here, but it's a bummer because we are still competing combined, even though there's really not a need for it, which is really disheartening. So hopefully the next games after this one will be separated again, but, in 2026, we will still be combined.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: What do you think you learned by picking the fight and standing up for yourself and then not only winning the lawsuit, but you flippin' won a gold and a bronze,

Brenna: It was really scary. I'm not gonna lie. Um. Yeah, believe it or not, going against major like conglomerate is terrifying. You know, am [00:35:00] I gonna be punished for, speaking out and for like, making waves and whatnot. And I was just kind of like, who cares?

Like I have this like injustice thing within me where I'm like, you know what? So be it like there was a time

Paddy: This is wrong.

Brenna: This is wrong.

Paddy: is wrong. There is right and wrong, and this is wrong, and I need to challenge

Brenna: Exactly. And like, I just kept thinking about like my younger self, when I had just lost my leg and how much, like seeing an above the knee woman snowboarding, changed my life. It gave me this like, oh, we can do this. When I first learned how to snowboard, I went on a group trip with my hospital and I was told I was not allowed to snowboard because it's too dangerous to teach above the knee amputees in group settings how to snowboard.

And I, I was like, I'm not going on your little ski trip if I can't snowboard. And they were able to make it happen, which I'm so grateful for. I, I was really outspoken about, and I got to use another above the knees, prosthetic leg. She lent it out to me. So [00:36:00] all of this to say, there's not a whole lot of places that are encouraging above the knee amputees to snowboard.

So it's truly, if you can't see it, how do you know you can do it? and so that was one of like the reasons for the fight too. I'm like, representation matters. You said it yourself, like, let's show my younger self and all the other ones that we deserve to be seen.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: What do you think, the number one lesson from the lawsuit was?

Brenna: Ooh, I'm not a marathon runner, but I felt like one, I was like, oh, I have to like stay mentally engaged, be prepared to act when it's time or like push when it's time but also I have to like make sure like I'm recovered through that period.

So I think for me it was learning how to take care of myself in very high pressure situations so that I can act when I needed to. And by acting it would be like finding all the information and sending the right emails and, you know, speaking to the right people and making sure I got all of it out there.

And then to not of course, to not give up right there, there were definitely times where I was like, what are we doing this for? when I [00:37:00] had those moments, that's where I was like, oh, I need to step back and take care of myself so that, you know, I can stay energized and remember what I'm doing this for.

Paddy: Do you think you apply any of these lessons learned from that in the rest of your life, either as a competitor or a professional, or a mother or a spouse?

Brenna: Yes, 100% all. One thing I want my kids to like, know about themselves is like to be self-confident and to know that they are their biggest advocates. Um, my oldest daughter's nine, she's in fourth grade. She's got hard classes for her now You know, when she's struggling, I'm like, okay, have you gone and talked to your teacher? Have you gone and asked for these resources? Have you gone and done this? And it is something she does whenever she's re like, you know, I'm her parent so I gotta tell her these, these are out there for her, right?

Like, these are the things you can do. now go do it. And she does. , A common theme in our house for the last nine years has been bravery.

Paddy: Okay.

Brenna: And, um, I would say now I regret that [00:38:00] because I'm like watching her send things on her snowboard or her mountain bike and I'm like, breaks, breaks. Like,

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Paddy: When it comes to your advocacy work and also your career as a professional athlete, I have to believe part of what pushes you to continue to challenge yourself physically to challenge the powers that be is the fact that you'd know that your daughters are watching.

Brenna: 100%. 100%.

Paddy: How does that inform what you do? And then what, what lessons then do you bring into that?

Brenna: Yeah, I mean, I feel like it would just be so hypocritical for me to be like, Hey, I'm gonna teach you to be all of these things and I'm gonna lecture you to be all of these things, but I'm not willing to do it myself. And that doesn't sit right with me. So you know, I do the hard things. I can't sit there and tell my daughter to advocate for herself and to be outspoken and to be self-confident and brave if I'm not willing to do it.

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Paddy: Are your girls psyched about the [00:39:00] Paralympics? Are they coming to Cortina with you?

Brenna: Yes. They'll be there and they are so excited. Yeah. I, I think I'm most excited to have them there. that's my gold medal is having them at the finish

Paddy: Is this their first games?

Brenna: This is, um, Lila's second game. She was like 18 months at my first games.

Paddy: So this is the first games though that like they know what's going on. Like they recognize like, okay, mom's a badass of the bad asses, and we're gonna like make signs and paint our faces and scream.

Brenna: yeah, yeah. And, but that's like so much pressure because this past season there were like a couple moments. I, I did not win. Right. Like I, it, it's just how it goes. And like the first question. Why didn't you win? So not look at, I am like, I gotta win, dude,

Paddy: Mama, mama, why didn't, why didn't you win? We stood out in the cold for you mom, like,

Brenna: We made signs mom for, oh, a bronze.

Paddy: Yeah.

Brenna: have that. I can't have that. I'm like, I can't. No.

MUSIC IN THE [00:40:00] CLEAR FOR A BEAT

Paddy: It is now time for the final ramble. One piece of gear you can't live without

Brenna: Oh, okay. Well, like, obviously my leg, but I would go

Paddy: unless you forget it.

Brenna: Unless I forget it, then I feel like I'm equally bummed whenever I forget, something to cover my face. So like some kind of

necky,

Paddy: like a, like a, a buff or, or a neck gator something like that?

Brenna: Yep. Yep. I like the fuzzy ones, but yeah. Like a, A necky. Yeah.

Paddy: I can do the thin ones. I can't do the fuzzy ones 'cause I got I got a hot face, I have a built in, face cooker. It's the stache.

Brenna: Fair. That's fair. I actually wear two, so like

Paddy: Seriously.

Brenna: insane. I'm insane. And if I don't have both, I'm like, bummed. I'm

Paddy: Well, you do live in Montana. Montana's very cold, so I get it. Best outdoor snack.

Brenna: Oh, beef jerky.

Paddy: Gotta love it.

Brenna: My dad makes, they are big hunters in Louisiana, so he, uh, shoots his own deer and then makes his own deer jerky and he sends it to me. So I've got that.

Paddy: Jerky mailed to you?

Brenna: I sure am. I sure [00:41:00] am. I

Paddy: kind of fancy jerky.

Brenna: Yeah, sure. I mean, if you saw my dad's, my dad's kitchen and appliances, you'd probably think otherwise health hazard. But, uh, I still eat it. I still eat it

Paddy: what is your hottest outdoor hot take?

Brenna: you know, I feel like this one is actually pretty hot because I, I already know people have arguments against it, but I don't think the outdoors are accessible enough. there's so many places people with different disabilities can't get to, and I think that's a big bummer.

Paddy: What's the fix? What's your fix?

Brenna: mean, like, we could start at the local level, like there's a lake by my house that I've. Been in, I've contacted people on that. Uh, yeah, if you have a disability, there's absolutely no way that you, I mean, like in a walk, like have a walker or a wheelchair, there's no way you're getting down there unless someone's like carrying you.

And even that's kind of sketchy. So yeah, more accessible trails, more accessible access to like, just different nature things.

Paddy: Do you attend your town council meetings?

Brenna: Uh, no, but I [00:42:00] will.

Paddy: I'm about, I was gonna say like, man, once you get home from Cortina, like the town council, better watch out. I feel like we are getting glimpses perhaps into like post-professional athlete career, which is just like head buttin', local, state, and national government into more accessibility.

Brenna: yeah. Like I've already been in touch with like, the majority of the local organizations in my area that do a lot of good for disability access and, and all sorts of different things,

Paddy: There's a lot of politicians who are about to get some blue haired headbutts, dude.

Brenna: 100 percent and Montanans Love that. Let me tell you.

MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

PADDYO VO:

Brenna Huckaby is a professional snowboarder and Paralympian-- and don’t call her an Olympian! Brenna won her first of maaaaany snowboard cross and banked slalom World Championships in 2015, won gold medals in snowboard [00:43:00] cross and banked slalom at the 2018 Winter Paralympics, and at the 2022 Winter Paralympics, Brenna won a landmark lawsuit to compete and followed that up with a gold in banked slalom cross and bronze in snowboard cross. Additionally and notably, Brenna is the first Paralympian in Sports Illustrated’s Swimsuit Edition and she won the 2024 'Best Athlete with a Disability' ESPY Award. Brenna will be competing at this winter's Paralympics in Cortina in March. Tune in! And follow her prepping for the games on Istagram at Bren underscore Hucks.

  Also, don't forget that we are now on YouTube. We turned our audio episodes into video episodes through the magic of science. Search The Outside Podcast on YouTube to enjoy these lovely chitchats with lovely faces to boot.

And, remember that we want to hear from you. Sooo, email your pod reactions, guest nominations, the suprising and necessary equipment you [00:44:00] forgot last time you went in the out of doors, and whatever else you want to tell and/or ask us to Outside Podcast At Outside Inc Dot Com.

The Outside Podcast is hosted and produced by me, Paddy O'Connell. But you can call me PaddyO. The show is also produced by the storytelling wizard, Micah "I close my eyes when I lick envelopes" Abrams. Music and Sound Design by Robbie Carver. Booking and research by Maren Larsen. And additional production support by brand new to the pod team member Jeanette Courts.

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