OLYMPICS PREVIEW: Thriving Under Pressure with Jessie Diggins

Jessie Diggins Ep Draft

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Jessie: I have such an interesting relationship with pain because over the years I've learned how to shake hands with it.

Because to me it's a sign, Hey, I came to this race wanting to give it all, and I'm so psyched. 'cause when I get to that level where you're tasting blood your legs are going numb, I'm like, I'm doing it. Like I'm gonna cross that finish line knowing that I gave what I came to give today and I'm gonna have no doubts.

You know, like, 'cause sometimes there are races where I cross the finish line and I'm like. Oops. Like, I definitely could have given more out there, like I did not empty the tank. I know I, I could have gone harder and no one else would know that you're the only one who's ever gonna know.

Paddy: That's such a, a cool, interesting, thought provoking place to spend so much time in and I love how you described it, shaking hands with pain. I have to imagine, because this is your profession, because you spend so much time there that this, this has to bleed into your time off skis as well. How does that relationship with pain. Knowing that you can [00:01:00] push into something very difficult and you cannot just like push into it for a little bit, but hold onto it, and continue to do the thing for a very long time. How does that show up in like everyday life?

Jessie: I mean, when I make coffee, it's very intense. I'm just kidding.

Paddy: MUSIC

PADDYO VO:

I love the Olympics, and that love is genetic. In 1976, after graduating from college, my dad backpacked through a wintery Europe. One of his must-see stops were the winter games in Innsbruck, Austria. Whilst scalping tickets to watch Dorothy Hamill skate for Gold, he and his Olympic-level mustache were mistaken for Marc Spitz, the torpedo in a speedo who swam to seven Golds in ‘72. My dad has never explicitly denied being more proud of that moment than he was at my birth.

He and my mom bought their very first rabbit-eared boob tube just so they could watch the Lake Placid [00:02:00] games in 1980. And as they added my siblings and I to the brood, love of “The Games” became as synonymous with our family as our Midwestern long vowels when we said something like, “Oh my gaaahd, Elvis Stojko is spinnin’ like a friggin’ top!”

And, of all the Olympic sports that I love—which, to be clear, is ALL of them—I’m currently the most obsessed with cross country skiing.

My own experiences cross country skiing have been humbling, maybe even humiliating. It’s hard to overstate how ridiculous I look while flailing about on comically long, extra skinny skis no wider than my belt. Picture a wobbling human jenga tower. Now light it on fire. And it’s not just the surprising amount of balance and precision that the sport demands; competitive cross country skiing requires an unbelievable amount of raw power—the aerobic max of the average Olympic racer would probably make [00:03:00] a humming bird’s heart explode.

I am enthralled by the way these human power plants balletically kick-and-glide through the rolling hills of Olympic courses. For most of my and my parents lives, there haven't been a lot of stars and stripes to root for in Olympic cross country skiing, but over the last eight years, one woman has singlehandedly changed that: Jessie Diggins.

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You probably remember Jessie from the 2018 Winter Games in Pyeongchang, where she and teammate Kikkan Randall won the US’s first-ever crosscountry skiing gold medal, in the team sprint. If you haven’t seen it since, I implore you to find it online and rewatch the final 5 minutes of the race—it is without question one of the most thrilling moments in Olympic history. Jessie added silver and bronze medals to her trophy case at the 2022 Games in Beijing, to go along with [00:04:00] her three overall World Cup titles and seven World Championship medals. She is, needless to say, the most decorated American crosscountry skier of all time.

I sat down with Jessie just a few weeks before she announced that the Olympic Winter Games in Cortina next month will be her last, and, following this year’s World Cup—the finals of which you can watch on Outside TV this March—she’ll hang up her spandex and race skis for good.

Jessie didn’t reveal this tidbit during our conversation, but listening to it I hear an athlete who’s preemptively reminiscing about a singular career. It’s one thing to be one of the best competitors in your chosen sport; it’s another thing entirely to define that sport for an entire country.

But Jessie’s not focused on the accomplishments or accolades; rather, what holds her attention are the relationships she’s developed—to her teammates and coaches, to be [00:05:00] sure (hearing her describe the moments after the Gold Medal race nearly brought me to tears), but also to competition itself. We can all learn something from how she manages the pain that’s inescapable in elite endurance sports, and greets any one of us who pushes ourselves to go a little harder or farther. And the mental jujitsu she performs in response to the massive pressure of the Olympics contains kernels of wisdom for anyone who knows what it’s like to lose perspective when things get intense.

More than anything, though, Jessie is someone who clearly just really freaking loves to crosscountry ski. And you don't need to be a greek-god-level athlete to freaking love that.

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first things first, burnt toast.

What's your last humbling and or hilarious moment outside?

Jessie: Yeah, well you're gonna love this. We had this roller ski race, in Park City. And so we're going down this roller ski [00:06:00] track at probably 40 miles an hour on our roller skis, which is how we cross train. So they're skinny little skis, no breaks. I make it through no problems, not even a broken pole tip.

And then at lunch I'm walking to grab a glass of water and I stub my pinky toe on the couch and I break it. And so I was, I do, and so I was literally brought to my knees by a piece of living room furniture, and I had survived like every hard training session of the entire camp. And it was just a couch

Paddy: They kick their furniture too. Oh man. well, you know what's shocking is you and I have so much in common. 'cause I do that on the daily.

Jessie: No way.

Paddy: Oh yeah,

Jessie: just crushing podcasts and breaking toes, you know?

Paddy: That's what I do. Yes.

Jessie: Yep.

Paddy: All right, let's get into it.

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so, I wanna start things off with maybe a tough question. Do you think it's possible to calculate the amount of time in your life that you've [00:07:00] spent in Lycra?

Jessie: Oh my God. Um, oh, I don't even know if I wanna know the answer. I mean, I think we're talking years of my life at this point. It's probably years. I don't like that.

Paddy: were a little child, so

Jessie: Mm-hmm. I don't like it. That's too much time for any human to spend in Lycra.

Paddy: Well, how much what about like, how much time, like freezing your keister off, because some of your races take place in brutal temps. Like, very famously, the 2022 Olympics, hit like negative one bajillion degrees, I believe so.

Uh,

Jessie: was so

Paddy: you, do you like the cold is dealing with the cold, just like the cost of doing business?

Jessie: It kind of is. I will say I grew up in Minnesota, so we're, we're raised pretty tough and it takes a lot for them to cancel school, you know what I mean? So like you are waiting for that bus out in the freezing cold and so you're just used to it. That is just the cost of being alive as a Minnesotan. And so [00:08:00] luckily that, you know, that kind of raised me with the right attitude about it.

It was just like, bundle up and you get out there anyway. When you're just a kid, you can just keep bundling. But when you're racing at the Olympics, you have to.

Paddy: Yeah,

Jessie: In this mesh spandex suit, you can't race in a puff coat. And so there's only so many layers you can cram underneath a spandex suit.

Paddy: What about fueling during a bitterly cold race are you doing the like armpit trick, like melting gels in your armpit? Or, I've also heard this cross country specific thing about blueberry soup,

Jessie: Oh yeah. So, so that is specific to, I believe, the Swedish fossil bit. And they do this in Moura, Minnesota, where they do the moura fossil bit, as like a, version of it where it's like hot blueberry soup during your race. And it is delicious. It's really, really good. , Unless you forget to take, so here's the thing, envision this, so you've got your poles strapped to your hands, and when you reach your hands up to grab a cup or like a feed bottle.

You [00:09:00] have to tuck the poles under your armpits because if you don't, the pole tips go in front of you, the pole tip hits the snow and boom, you punch yourself in the face with your own ski poles and then whatever you're drinking spills all over you where it

Paddy: a hot blueberry soup all over you.

Jessie: and then it, and then it freezes on you.

And so you have to be really, really careful to tuck those poles in.

Paddy: Okay,

Jessie: Yeah, exactly. So you're human blue, blueberry popsicle But to be fair, on the world cup, we don't really feed with blueberry soup. And maybe we're really missing out on something important here.

Paddy: Are you dipping at all into your Minnesotan heritage? Like are you trying to bring like hot dish or lutefisk with you at all

Jessie: my gosh. No,

Paddy: No.

Jessie: no, no, no.

Paddy: Is this

Jessie: I mean

Paddy: soup issue? Like you could revolutionize endurance sports here?

Jessie: honestly, I probably am missing out. But to be fair, both of my parents were actually born in Canada and my dad still has his Canadian citizenship. So we didn't grow up eating lutefisk and hot dish.

Paddy: Well, hot

dish, missing out on hot dish. I feel so very sorry for you. I grew up in [00:10:00] Chicago. We just called it casserole,

but Luta Fisk. Honestly, if you had Luta Fisk, like if somebody put it like behind you, you probably would set a new land speed record. 'cause that stuff is terrifying to look at and smells to high heaven.

Dear Lord,

Jessie: Yeah, it will motivate you to ski away

Paddy: jelly jelled fish that's been stuck in the ground, like, dear God,

Jessie: I wanna know how they came up with that.

Paddy: because winters are cold and sad sometimes

Jessie: Yeah,

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Paddy: well, I know that you haven't lived in Minnesota for quite some time. but what I know and love about Minnesotans is that they are very proud people. They're incredibly kind. They're affable, outdoorsy, really tough, and now you travel all over the world. You live in Boston, you train in Vermont, but do you still feel like a Midwesterner, do you still feel like a Minnesotan?

Does that help your skiing?

Jessie: Oh, I do, I do. Yeah. I'm, I'm always gonna consider Minnesota a home for me, and also because my family still lives there and my parents still live in the house that I grew up in. And so every time I get to go home, I'm like, [00:11:00] oh, like this is where I grew up learning how to ski. You know, like, this is the community that taught me how to love this sport so much.

And so that's always gonna be in my heart. Um, and I, I do take that with me on the road actually sometimes when things feel. like they're getting bigger than big on the World Cup. I just remember like, hey, like this is where I grew up skiing. I just grew up skiing with people who loved it and with this amazing community.

doesn't have to be more than that, you know? It does. It doesn't have to be this life or death win the Olympics or else it could just be like, go out there, put on your skis and go as hard as you can, just like you did when you were 14 years old.

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Paddy: for me and my family growing up, I got a chance to watch through the eyes of my parents how you could appreciate all four seasons.

Jessie: , I remember like going out in the garden with my mom and being so excited seeing daffodils poking up and how cool that was. And then in the summer it was all about canoe trips and camping and hiking and fishing and being out on the lakes and the rivers and then in the fall it's like, oh my God, the leaves are so [00:12:00] beautiful.

And so the winter was just like, this is the next thing. And like of course you would, you go sledding, you're gonna build a snow for it. You're gonna go snowshoeing, you're gonna go skiing, like you're gonna glide around these trails and look how gorgeous and like how it feels when the snow is just coming down and it's so silent and so peaceful and you're just ripping through the woods on these single track trails.

It is such a cool feeling. And I think. Yes, for sure. these epic jagged mountains of the west, they are gorgeous. I love it. It's, it's awe inspiring, but I think there's also something to be said for this quiet kind of beauty about appreciating just the sounds and the feel and like the birds and you just, you, I think you notice all the little details so much more because you're not caught up by something so big and so massive that I think you just really appreciate all the little things along the way.

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Paddy: well invariably, like when people talk to you about Nordic skiing, they talk to you [00:13:00] about your competition, your competitiveness, your accomplishments. We're gonna talk about that. But you know, a lot of that is focused on times and finishes and not the actual act of skiing. So let's talk about the actual act of skiing.

What do you love about Nordic skiing outside of training and competition and standing on top of podiums and representing your country?

Jessie: I love that you never feel like you've totally gotten it figured out because there's so many different techniques, right? You've got skate and classic as.

Paddy: hard.

Jessie: It is so hard, but that's what's so cool is that within each of those, you have multiple different techniques, right? For getting up the hill and getting across the flatter sections.

And then when you go downhill, you are tucking and you're trying to be aerodynamic, and then you have to step around the corner. So you're training so many different ways of moving and so many different ways of, getting around a course as quickly as possible that I just think it's so challenging for your brain, and I love that.

And so even when you're not trying to race or train, [00:14:00] just the act of skiing, it's so full body I think there's something really beautiful in that.

Paddy: do you think that Nordic skiing is something that you would do even if you had never become a competitor?

Jessie: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, even after I retire someday, like I wanna be 85-year-old me skiing around trails of my grandkids. You know, like I, I wanna be just out enjoying snowy days and enjoying the winter in this capacity. And I think that's one thing that I think people should know about the sport that is so cool is it can be so gentle on you because you're gliding.

You know, you're, you're, it's not hard on your joints, it's not super fast. You don't have the same injury risk.

Paddy: I am gonna push back on this because I

Jessie: Fight me on this, let's go

Paddy: I have, I have never experienced that on Nordic skis. I go, uh, in the last five years I have gotten into Nordic skiing a lot if you plotted, my progression on, A graph? It would, it would be [00:15:00] flat. I feel like,

I feel like a talented alpine skier. I feel like an inflatable tube man that you see out of a used car lot. Anytime I get on these very large, very skinny skis. And the interesting thing here is that even you have described your skiing style as quote the wheels coming off,

Jessie: yeah.

Paddy: I don't see that when I have watched you race. Can you describe your style?

Jessie: Well, I love actually the imagery of those tubes that are just like the, the limbs just flinging out.

Um, well, I would say on the inside, I do feel like that is what's happening sometimes. Um, even if it doesn't outwardly represent, I'm like, oh, man. Like, I feel like I can barely control my limbs because I am in such pain, because, so I guess here's what I should explain when I'm skiing, just for fun, just very easy.

You're gliding, you're, you're playful on your skis, but when you're racing and when it really is for all the [00:16:00] marbles, you're going deep in that pain cave and you are pushing really hard and your body feels like it's on fire and your muscles are stiffening up and it becomes harder and harder to get your body to do what your brain is telling it to do.

You know, it's, it's kind of like they're fighting each other and so. I think for me, the way it feels is like my skiing style is someone who tries very, very hard, but who has never felt natural grace in racing movements. Like I feel like my technique has always been my weakest spot, and so I'm always working on it, but I, I don't, I don't think I have an especially beautiful style.

You know, sometimes you see someone racing and you're like, oh, oh, they make it look so easy. And then I go by and people are like, not her though. She makes it look exactly as hard as it is. And that's great because I'm like, Hey, it's like keeping it honest here, you know? Like it is hard. And guess what? It looks hard.

Paddy: That is wild, because to me, watching your races, like it just doesn't look like that. I'm [00:17:00] glad once again, besides Olympians stubing their toes, they also, their own technique.

Jessie: Oh yeah. everyone on the inside is just one of those inflatable tube men at the used car sale lot, you know,

Paddy: you just made me feel so nice. Thank you for that.

Jessie: you are welcome.

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Paddy: One of the perks about the gig that I have is that I get to talk to a lot of athletes who are at the absolute max top of their sport and, They live inside of the pain cave.

You know, they love pushing their body, their mind, their emotionality to the absolute brink. I will say though, from what I've read, you seem to be a little bit different. You said that sometimes you give a hundred percent, sometimes 99, sometimes 98.5, but never below 97. Now, to me, when it comes to the absolute soul body mind is on fire aerobic output that happens during cross country skiing. The difference at [00:18:00] this max end of that kind of incremental spectrum seems indecipherable to the normal human being. So for us, mere mortals, can you please describe the difference in like, visceral detail going on at 97%? That's not going on at. 96

Jessie: for me, and to be fair, sometimes I'm aiming to give 96% because it's the tour to ski and I have to race the next day, and I'm like, oops, I went a little too hard and like, that's gonna cost me. And so I think I would, did, I would actually break it down by what is physically happening in your body, like what does it feel like, but also what is it going to cost you to recover from that?

So for example, at the 2022 Olympics in Beijing, in the 30 kilometer race, this was the, the very last race of the Olympics. I raced 30 hours after having food poisoning, and I came away with a silver medal, but. I gave 100%. And when I crossed that finish line, I couldn't get up. Like I was mostly unconscious.

My eyes were [00:19:00] open, but I couldn't see, my breathing sounded like an asthmatic bulldog. And I had a out of body experience where I was like, can somebody put the animal out of its misery? That is a disgusting sound. And then I realized it was me. And I was like, that's really sad. And I couldn't get my limbs to move.

Every muscle in my body was cramping by the end of that race. And it felt like my vision had tinted, like that is what it was for me to truly give a hundred percent. And it took me, I think, almost three months to fully come out of that. Like I cooked myself to the point where I would like start to come back and then I'd race and be right back down in the hole.

And I was sleeping. 10, 11 hours every night for like two months after that. it was like a deep level of exhaustion and so

Paddy: now. Like this sounds. Awful.

Jessie: yeah, it was awful. I mean, it wasn't awful in that, you know, if, if you're gonna pick one moment to really give it all, I guess the Olympics is a good moment. It [00:20:00] seems worthy, but I realized, oh my gosh, like when I really give everything, this is what it takes and this is what it looks like. This is what it feels like and I'm okay with that.

But what it costs my body afterwards, I don't know if I'm okay with that.

Paddy: In the moment, are you like, oh God, I'm scared to go further into this because the current physical pain that I'm feeling, and also in consideration of like, if I'm gonna go a hundred percent, like I, it, it could be three months of recovery. Like, do you get

afraid of that in the moment?

Jessie: Well, usually not because I've decided going into the race, like most races on the World Cup, I'm like, okay, I wanna give like 99%. But that last bit where you just go over the cliff, I'm like, I don't wanna go there because I don't know how long it's going to, it's a long season. Um, and you get one body and I wanna take care of it.

And so I will try very hard to give. Almost everything that I have. And which is still [00:21:00] brutal by the way. You know, like you're tasting blood, your limbs feel like they're on fire, it feels like you're breathing in fire 'cause your lungs are burning so bad.

And sometimes my vision does tint and it will often take at least 30 seconds for me to get up from the ground. But I know I'll be fine. Gimme a day, gimme two days. I'm good. No problem. that level of pain I'm totally fine with. I have such an interesting relationship with pain because over the years I've learned how to shake hands with it.

Because to me it's a sign, Hey, I came to this race wanting to give it all, and I'm so psyched. 'cause when I get to that level where you're tasting blood your legs are going numb, I'm like, I'm doing it. Like I'm gonna cross that finish line knowing that I gave what I came to give today and I'm gonna have no doubts.

You know, like, 'cause sometimes there are races where I cross the finish line and I'm like. Oops. Like, I definitely could have given more out there, like I did not empty the tank. I know I, I could have gone harder and no one else would know that you're the [00:22:00] only one who's ever gonna know.

Paddy: That's such a, a cool, interesting, thought provoking place to spend so much time in and I love how you described it, shaking hands with pain. I have to imagine, because this is your profession, because you spend so much time there that this, this has to bleed into your time off skis as well. How does that relationship with pain. Knowing that you can push into something very difficult and you cannot just like push into it for a little bit, but hold onto it, and continue to do the thing for a very long time. How does that show up in like everyday life?

Jessie: I mean, when I make coffee, it's very intense. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Um.

Paddy: You just grind the beans in your hands.

Jessie: Just can't grind them with my fingernails. No. Um, it's actually really funny though. That isn't a, that is a great question because I have tried very hard to not let it bleed so much into my everyday life because I know it could very easily because it's, it's hard [00:23:00] to take that level of intensity and that level of pushing yourself and then in your everyday life go, okay, I have to give myself a break, you know?

And, and, and when you're wired that way such that you can push that hard in a race for me, I know, like I could also push myself at that level of intensity in every aspect of my life. And I did for a while. When I was 18 I had an eating disorder and it was really, really tough and I ended up going to a recovery center, at the Emily program and I learned a lot about myself and I learned, okay, like I.

can be really hard on myself, and I'm demanding perfection from myself in every area of my life. And that's not realistic, you know? And so I realize like I don't wanna approach everything I do with that level of give absolutely everything you have. Sometimes you, you have to pick and choose. And of course, for sure, there are certain things where you can and should give everything that you have.

But you know, when you're cooking and washing the dishes, you can [00:24:00] just have most of your brain turned off, you know, like, and I think it's important to, to be able to flip that switch off.

Paddy: is it an active flipping of a switch you feel like inside of yourself? Like are you cognizant of like, okay, now I am flip chill mode, Jesse,

Jessie: I, I do try. I try.

Paddy: a bunch of notches.

Jessie: Like, I will sometimes recognize, I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel like a windup toy, that it's getting wound tighter and tighter. And I can feel it like in my chest where I'm like, I need to just go for a little walk. Like I'm trying to do too much right now. I'm trying to take on, too much.

But it is funny because while I am very competitive on the snow in between the start gun and the finish line, I am not competitive with other people. I'm competitive against myself and the course and the clock, you know? It's never been, I'm gonna beat you.

It's, I wanna beat this challenge, you know, I wanna beat this course.

I wanna see, can I put these puzzle pieces together? What, what am I capable of here? How far can I push this? And so when I'm just like playing [00:25:00] board games at home, I'm like not a very competitive person. I either like, I either care very much about something or really just not at all. Like, I'm like, Ugh, I really don't care.

And it's really funny 'cause people are like, you're an athlete, you're supposed to just be dead set on winning. And I'm like, no, this is not where like I don't have the energy for this.

Paddy: Well, as often as you are described as like gritty and determined, you're also equally described as like a giant goofball. You know, like I believe you have the nickname Sparkle Chipmunk.

Jessie: Oh yeah, I do.

Paddy: so like where does humor fit into all of the must haves for competition and training?

Jessie: From. I think my very earliest days on the World Cup, I started racing with glitter on my cheeks, which is like, you really can't take yourself too seriously when you're sparkly. And it, it really, it started as a reminder to myself, like, this is fun. You know, like, this is supposed to be fun. I'm literally doing fun and games.

Like that's what sports are. You know, like that's what it [00:26:00] started as. And that's what it should remain, you know? And as the pressure gets higher and as the expectations put on, my shoulders get higher, I want to remind myself like, Hey, I'm, I'm here because I want to be, you know, I'm here for me. 'cause I love what I do and I love the people I do it with.

So like, let's go have some fun out there. And so, it's funny because when I first got in the World Cup. I remember wondering like, are people thinking I'm not taking this seriously because I do care very much. You know, so many people work so hard. You have the wax techs, you have the coaches, you have people behind the scenes.

There's a lot of people giving a lot. And I show up and I'm like cracking jokes and smiling and bopping around. And I'm like, this is, and my game face, like for me, when I'm relaxed, when I'm having fun, that's when I'm actually at my most dangerous on the race course. And I think it's,

Paddy: just feel like nothing's stressing me out. Yeah,

Jessie: I feel loose.

And also it's like this inverse relationship with pain where like if I'm not suffering in my everyday life. And I am at baseline, like a really pretty happy person and I'm just kind of [00:27:00] bobbing around. If I am there, then I can suffer in the race you only have so much pain you can hold.

It's like if the bucket if only has a couple drops in it, you can feel it with the race. But if your bucket of pain in your life and your mental pain, if it's already almost full, you can't put that much more in it, it's gonna overflow and you don't have as much to give to the race 'cause you're already holding so much pain.

And so when I show up to the race, when I'm loose and happy and I'm just like, Hey, I'm gonna go out here and do this, this is great. Like I have so much to give during the race,

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Jessie: PADDYO VO:

More from cross country skiing phenom and Olympian Jessie Diggins after the break.

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Paddy: I wanna talk to you, obviously about the Olympics.

Jessie: Yeah.

Paddy: first before we get into the actual competition. Describe for somebody who's never been to the Olympics, what it feels like. Is the idea of the [00:28:00] quote unquote Olympic spirit and this international community marketing bs, or is it real?

Jessie: Uh, I mean, I think it depends on who you ask and which Olympics we're referring to. So I've been to three different Olympics, 2014 in Sochi Russia, 2018 in Pyeongchang, and 2022 in Beijing. And the last one was a COVID Olympics. So of course you didn't have international community.

Everyone was incredibly isolated and all the volunteers were wearing hazmat suits, like straight outta the ET movie, that Olympics was honestly really hard. And I felt like the level of comradery that you felt that you were even allowed to have because of risk of exposure or contact tracing, you were like, I don't wanna hang out with anyone.

'cause if they got COVID and then I get traced and then I can't race, you know? And so it was such a, um, challenging atmosphere. But my first [00:29:00] Olympics in 2014, I went to opening ceremonies, which is always the toss up for us because we race the very next day. for cross country skating, we have six races.

We race the very first day of the games and then we are like one of the last races, like the medals for the men's and women's long distance race are given out at closing ceremonies. And there's the only medals that are presented at closing ceremonies, which is pretty cool. so

Paddy: is really cool. But it's also like, that's a, that's a long time to stay

focused,

Jessie: It's a very long time, and so if you race all six races, like I have the last two games, you are so focused and so dialed the whole time. So that's why I say it depends on who you ask, because my first games, I really came in with no pressure. You know, I was 22 years old, and so it was like, if you perform well, great.

If you don't, it's fine. You're 22. You're not carrying the weight of the nation on your shoulders. You're here to learn, because I knew this was going to be my first games of many, and so I was there to learn how overwhelming it could be with all the different cameras and lights, [00:30:00] all the different checkpoints you are going through security check after security check, and if you lose your credential.

It's all over. And so just learning the process of the games and learning how it was very much hurry up and wait. It was a little bit like being at Disney World. Like you have this incredible ride and it's like super exciting and it's the super high, but then before and after you're waiting around for a really long time and there's a lot of anticipation and a lot of nerves.

And so your emotions are going on this rollercoaster the entire two and a half, three weeks that you're there. it's Interesting to learn how to try to manage that to the best of your ability. and so, yeah, I would say my first games I had a ton of that feeling of like, oh, it's so cool. Like I'm gonna go like, meet some of the bobsleds I'm gonna hang out with, the biathletes, I'm gonna see all these different sports.

But as I've gotten older and then had to narrow in the focus a little bit more during the games and be a little more. protective of my germ bubble that I'm exposing myself to. I haven't been able to see a single other event. [00:31:00] Um, I've seen one other event in the entire time I've ever been at the Olympics, and it was a biathlon race in 2014,

Paddy: I mean, I understand

that you are very serious about your sport and that you compete in, you know, six different races at the Olympics. It's a little shocking.

Jessie: I know it

Paddy: Do you think that, you know, in your next life when perhaps you become a commentator or something, that you're gonna go there and Absolutely.

Like wig out on

the spectacle?

Jessie: absolutely. I'm so excited to go to an Olympic someday where I get to absorb. The energy and the comradery in the crowd without having to be concerned about my own performance and protective of my time on feet and my energy and the exposure that I'm getting. I think it's gonna be amazing.

I've been just wired for so long to be so focused on performance honestly, it doesn't even feel like a sacrifice to me. It feels like I'm earning the right to look in the mirror at the end of my Olympic race and go, okay, you did everything [00:32:00] you could.

Absolutely everything. No stone left unturned, no regrets, like, win, lose, whatever. Like, you gave yourself your best chance, I feel like I'm earning the right to never have to wonder what if.

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Paddy: An interesting thread to pull on here is that a lot of skiers kind of describe the World Cup as being a little more, important to the overall year that they're having, but the Olympics is a singular event in all, uh, of sports.

What's your favorite part of competing at the Olympics?

Jessie: it is an interesting thing where the Olympics is one day, one moment for each event, whereas your performance over the whole year, the World Cup does give a way more complete picture of how are you ski racing in general. So I totally get that. That really resonates with me. Um, and I think the Olympics is so interesting because.

And I've heard people say this in many ways, it, it is set up for the underdog. And I felt this in 2018 when Keegan and I won that gold medal. We were most definitely the underdogs. [00:33:00] So we came into that team Sprint. Yes, we had, we had pressure for sure, but nothing compared to what Sweden and Norway were carrying.

You know, they were the hands down favorites. We got to just kind of like sneak in there and just have a day. But then once you've had your moment and once you come in as a favorite, you don't get to fly under the radar anymore. Like now you come in with that pressure and that expectation, and so to get to the top is one thing, but to stay there and to do it on one day, one moment with all these variables you can't control that are truly outta your hands, it is so challenging.

And I think that's what makes it so magical when it does come together and when it happens. Because the likelihood of everything going right in this one moment, It's incredible, honestly. And, and I think that's what makes the Olympics so interesting, is that so much weight is placed upon this singular moment that only happens every four years.

Paddy: But that's interesting though that you seem to say that the [00:34:00] pressure of competing at the Olympics is the best part about competing at the Olympics because it will give you the opportunity for everything to go right, to have this kind of magical moment. Is that what it is?

Am I hearing you correctly?

Jessie: Uh, I mean, I don't know if the pressure's the best part or the worst part, to be honest, but I think it's the best part in that,

even with all of the noise and all of the lights and the cameras and all of the pressure and the whole world watching you. At the end of the day, you're just a girl wearing a bib and some Lycra. And skiing around a course as fast as you can. And there is something really cool about that.

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Paddy: One of the moments that I would love to talk to you about where all of the things came together and you did have this very special moment, is the gold at the 2018 games because it is arguably one of the most memorable moments in any Olympics, in any sport for the US ever.

Jessie: That's, that's a very big statement right

Paddy: here is my hot take. It is [00:35:00] it

Jessie: quite the hot take.

Paddy: it absolutely is as exciting as, the final call for the Miracle on Ice.

Jessie: I was just gonna say, I think a particular hockey team would have to fight you on this, but.

Paddy: Listen, listen, literally comes down to the wire. It is such a fabulous thing to rewatch. I have rewatched it for this interview like 30 times, and

Jessie: Oh my goodness.

Paddy: I can't, I just hit replay on it I

get goosebumps and I get teary eyed every single time.

It is so exciting, and I want to try to recreate some of the excitement of those final moments right here with you right now, so that we can paint a picture and we can. talk about this. So it's you in Sweden and Norway, descending the final downhill. Y'all are tip to tail in a bunch. You're in third, but you zip into second.

You try to weave your way from inside to outside, but you get cut off. You actually stop skating and coast for a moment [00:36:00] so you can get an opening, but you lose some ground. You're gassed, you're bent at the waist. It looks for a moment like you want to put your hands on your knees, but you don't. You head into the second to last turn.

You're starting to pull and you're skating furiously. You're three ski lengths behind Sweden. Norway's behind you, headed into the second turn, and this is where you drop the freaking hammer. You slingshot to the outside of the final turn. You're pulling and skating for the final straightaway. Pulling and skating, pulling and skating.

gaining on Sweden, your ponytail flies wildly like a goddamn helicopter rotor. you're sliding by Sweden. Now the finish sign is inside I. You're pulling your skating. You're gold for the us.

Jessie: That is the maybe the best rendition outside of the actual call that I have ever heard.

Paddy: thank you very much. That makes my heart feel very good. The

actual call is amazing.

how often do you think of that moment, that [00:37:00] final, what is it, 15

seconds of this race? How often does that moment pop up into your head when you're training and act as a motivator? Does it at all or or are you just like, eh, that's something I did in 2018? It was pretty, it was pretty neato, I guess.

Jessie: yeah, just that was pretty cool, I guess. No. Okay, so this is the craziest thing is that I don't think about it. For a motivator almost at all. Because, it happened in the past. I think about it when I want the feel good, goosebumps and, and not actually those 15 seconds, but really the moment when Ki can jumped on me and hugged me and we, and we had that second together.

And then when we got up, or rather she like scooped me up off the snow and we turned and then we saw the whole team all our teammates like screaming, crying, and like seeing coaches on their knees just [00:38:00] sobbing. Like that was the coolest thing ever. So when I want some feel good, that's what I think about . But. When I wanna actually be motivated during training, I think about the current team and what I'm training for right now. I will literally say to myself, who are you doing this for? Like when I'm having a hard interval set, when I need that extra motivation to really dig really deep and push really hard, I'll ask myself like, who are you doing this for?

And I'm like, it's for the relays. Like, and I'll just imagine like tagging off to one of my teammates and wanting to know that I put everything I had into this preparation. It's more about thinking about the people that I'm working hard for in this very moment that gets me really fired up.

Paddy: That just made my heart feel. So goddamn good. Thank you for that.

Jessie: It's a lot of feel goods today.

Paddy: Uh, so many feel goods talking to you. This is great. My heart feels like hot blueberry soup right now. Uh, also, I want you to know that in my, rewatching [00:39:00] of that, clip, I also found the British call for it, which

Jessie: Oh my

Paddy: hilarious because it's like diggins rounds, the corner towards the finish, historic win for the

Jessie: Oh my gosh.

Paddy: and the, and the US call is like, oh my God, I'm taking off my shirt.

Jesus Christ. It's like, so, it's so great.

The difference is

Jessie: different emotions.

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Paddy: In the last 20 years, you've navigated the maze of training and travel competitions, public opinion, so how's your relationship to the Olympics, to training?

How has it evolved over the years and what would Cortina Jesse tell Sochi Jesse, if they

could talk.

Jessie: Ooh, Cortina, Jesse would say to Sochi Jesse, make sure your goals are your goals. And make sure they stay process oriented, not outcome oriented. So it's all about [00:40:00] how do I want to ski? How do I wanna carry myself? How do I, show up for the team? How do I show up for myself?

How am I thanking the volunteers even after, and especially after one of the hardest races in my life? Make sure that other people's goals for you don't start becoming your goals for yourself. After the last Olympics, I went back and I read one of my journal entries, and after I got a bronze medal in the sprint, you know, it was this incredible moment.

You know, it's like the first individual Olympic medal for women in cross country skiing.

Paddy: Yeah.

Jessie: And I just felt relief. 'cause I was like, oh, thank God. Like I got a medal for the team. I was, I was quote, supposed to have gotten a medal for the team and no one actually on my team would've said that to me. I was internalizing this very external pressure from outside of my bubble, but I was feeling so much, uh, weight of these expectations.

Like it was crushing me and it crushed the joy out of the moment. It's not that I didn't feel joy, but the first thing I [00:41:00] felt was relief and not like, holy shit, I'm excited. You know, like it should have been like this yes moment. And it was like, oh, thank God. Like I checked the box. And that was really sad to me looking back.

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Paddy: You've talked about how joy fuels you and that external pressure can steal joy from you. So at this point in your career, how would you define your relationship to pressure? Is it the monkey on your back? Is it this necessary part of the yin and yang of being the very best at a sport?

Jessie: Well, the honest answer is when I'm, when I'm in a really good place, I see pressure as this thing that I have earned. Through years and years of working really hard. And it is just part of the game, right? This is part of it. I don't need to be defined by it. I don't need to be controlled by it.

It's there, but it's just a part of my process on race day. Sort of like I show up and I pick the skis with my coach and [00:42:00] I do my warmup, and I, you know, take my gel before the start. Like, those are the things that I do. And like cameras following me around and media asking questions, that's just part of my process now.

It's simply part of the day when I'm struggling and not in a great place. I feel like this is not something I asked for.

Paddy: Mm.

Jessie: like I, I feel like I need a break. Um, and I, and I feel like that's, you know, such a champagne problem, right? Like, I don't wanna seem like an athlete who's complaining, but at the same time.

It can be hard and I think it's okay to recognize, it can be really hard to feel like you're so worried about, not letting other people down ' cause you feel like you're being watched.

Paddy: So in the lead up to Cortina, how are you being cognizant? Of trying to see the pressure as this earned thing does the lead up feel high pressure, or how are you making it not feel high pressure?

Jessie: Yeah, exactly. I feel like so far it has been a really nice thing. It's, it's, I [00:43:00] felt like I'm in a good relationship with the pressure, which is really wonderful and I will say. Most of the credit to that goes to my sports psychologist. She is wonderful. I've worked with her since I was 19. And I think having an awesome, solid foundation with a sports psychologist that you know, that you can really open up to, who knows you.

That is huge. You know, a phrase that kind of resonates with me is don't let it become bigger than big. so right now. Like, like the Olympics can feel so big, so massive. It can start to become like, this is life or death.

You've trained your whole life for this. This will either change your life or ruin you. And it's easy to see why an athlete would get into that though, right? I mean, if you watch all the coverage of the Olympics, it's really easy to start thinking like, oh my God, your life hinges on this moment. And so it's easy to understand where that thinking trap comes from.

But for me, it's not bigger than big. It's literally just [00:44:00] today. Like, what am I doing today? Okay, I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna do these intervals and this strength lift session. I'm gonna do it, uh, with this focus and I'm gonna work on these things and I'm gonna go and do that the best I can. And then tomorrow.

I'll focus on that day, you know, and just trying to really be in the moment and just doing the thing that I'm doing to the best of my ability and not letting it be bigger than that, or more meaningful than that. just be in the moment and do it the best you can and that's it.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

something that I don't know how other athletes visualize, but for me, I don't just visualize like the perfect race in winning. I visualize myself skiing with really good movements and my best technique, but I also visualize myself being in the pain cave and being like, this is really hard.

Like, like my legs are going numb. What am I gonna do to keep myself moving forward? I visualize being in pain and deciding to keep pushing anyways. I visualize someone stepping on my pole, it ripping outta my hand and me [00:45:00] calmly waving for another one, getting another pole and moving forward anyways, so that when things happen in a race, it isn't.

The first time, I feel like I've been there before and I know how I'm gonna react. So I've done this visualization before where I imagine something, something going awry, something outta my control. And I decide I'm gonna stay in the moment.

I'm gonna do everything that I can. And then two years ago at our World Cup opener in Ruca, this happened, a can and a half from the finish. Somebody stepped on my pole, it ripped off my hand, it ripped my glove off too. And it was minus 20 degrees Celsius. It was cold, cold, cold. And when I got the spare pole, I actually managed to punch myself in the face with it.

So my lip was bleeding and I had blood running down my chin threw my teeth because I mashed my lip into my teeth and I just focused. But here's the crazy thing, I didn't even know I was bleeding. I had no idea. 'cause I was so focused on being in the moment and doing everything [00:46:00] that I could. And I was focused on just get into a good position, look for the window slingshot, go for the gap.

And I ended up getting second in the race after falling back to 12th when I lost my pole. And I think it was because of the power of visualizing and visualizing like, this is not the end. I'm gonna decide to keep forward and go forward anyways. I'm going to give it everything that I have. And then after the race, I was extremely exhausted.

I was very cold, my hand was frostbitten. And I remember touching my face and coming away with a bloody, bloody hand being like, what is happen? Like I was shocked.

Paddy: know that I'm bleeding? Help,

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with something like Cortina coming up, do you allow yourself to visualize yourself crossing the finish line and first standing atop a podium, or are you like, I'm just staying with gloves getting ripped out and my mouth getting bloody, I'm just staying right there.

Jessie: No, I, I have visualized it all. Yeah. 'cause sometimes you wanna [00:47:00] visualize having it all go right as well. That's not the only thing that I visualize, but it is nice to, in your head, already believe that you can do it and that you, you have the guts and you have the moment. And so if the window opens up and you're like, okay, I'm gonna take it.

You also feel like you've done that before as well.

Paddy: Oh God. I feel like I want to put eye black on right now, man. I'm getting fired up. Jesse.

Jessie: Let's go out there and race

Paddy: Let's just put hammer down. Oh God. I love the Olympics so much.

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When we, your countrymen and women, watch you this February in Cortina, as we are screaming wildly at the tv, what do you want us to know?

Jessie: Oh, I guess I want you to know that one. I cannot promise any results, but I can promise I will giving absolutely everything that I have. So when you see me cross that finish line, you'll know [00:48:00] like. That was it. That was everything she had in her body on that day. And I want you to know I'm not really racing alone.

And that there was a whole team of wax techs behind the skis. There was a whole team of coaches putting in advice and perspective going into this. There was a whole mental team behind me. There were so many teammates training with me. So know that even in the individual races, it's not an individual effort.

Paddy: Well, from us to you, I hope you know you're definitely not alone 'cause we are definitely with you.

Jessie:  Oh, goosebumps

Paddy: MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

It is now time for the final ramble. One piece of gear you cannot live without.

Jessie: My mittens, because I ruined my hands in the Beijing Olympics, like actually ruined them from the cold and frostbite, so now I could not live without my mittens. I almost always train in mittens even when it's like 30 degrees out.

Paddy: My friends who are ski mountaineers who [00:49:00] have gotten frostbite pretty badly say that they wear mittens like when it's like 70 degrees out. Is it like that for you?

Jessie: Oh, not quite that bad. Thankfully, we're not talking mountaineer level frostbite,

Paddy: Best outdoor snack.

Jessie: right now it's homemade pumpkin muffins. Hard to beat it. Hard to beat a good pumpkin muffin on a mountaintop. You know what I mean?

Paddy: Nobody has said pumpkin muffins.

Jessie: Your people are missing out. Go get yourself some pumpkin muffins for the trail.

Paddy: What is your hottest outdoor hot take?

Jessie: I Think sometimes people who have all the gear and who are quite serious about outdoors and like trail running or whatever it is. Get a little high up on all the gear and they get really like, oh my God, can you believe that person hiking in jeans and Crocs? And I see that and I'm like, this person got outside today.

However it worked for them. And I think we gotta let people get outside in whatever capacity [00:50:00] works for them. Don't be judgy if you wanna hike in. Flip flop some jeans.

Paddy: dweeb.

Jessie: Yeah, if you wanna hike in jeans, do it. Like getting outside in any capacity is so much better than not getting outside at all.

Paddy: lot of times when you're all like geared out and teched out on the trail, there's like a toddler, doing the exact same thing that you're doing

and you're like, well, I guess maybe I'm not actually as cool as I thought I was.

Jessie: Yeah. And that that toddler also made it to the summit of your local mountain. You're

Paddy: yeah, yeah. In a diaper,

Jessie: exactly. I'm not saying there isn't a good place for the right gear, for the right occasion, but, but we can get a little snobby about it sometimes. I

Paddy: Don't be a judgy dickalope says Jesse Diggins. That's, that's the takeaway. That is the headline here, folks.

Jessie: Damn, that's quite the headline.

Paddy: MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

Jessie Diggins is the most accomplished US cross-country skier of all time. She's won three World [00:51:00] Cup overall titles, three Olympic medals, seven World Championship medals, and a crockpots-worth of championships from all sorts of Nordic skiing events. Point is, Jessie Diggins is stupidly talented and super fun to watch race, which you should abolutley do during the Olympics in Cortina next month, which we just found out will be her last games because she's retiring at the end of this season. So tune in and cheer your head off, she'll for sure  hear you through the TV. Follow Jessie's ski-ventures on Instagram At Jessie Diggins.

And in "oh, hey, did ya know" news - Did ya know that we're on the YouTubes? That's right, video episodes of The Outside Podcast are now available on YouTube. Come watch these words pour outta my grill in technicolor video. Just search The Outside Podcast on YouTube.

And, remember that we want to hear from you. Sooo, email your pod [00:52:00] reactions, guest nominations, the Olympic event you think you could off the couch be great at - Micah's is ice dancing, and whatever else you want to tell and/or ask us to Outside Podcast At Outside Inc Dot Com.

The Outside Podcast is hosted and produced by me, Paddy O'Connell. But you can call me PaddyO. The show is also produced by the storytelling wizard, Micah "I don't cross country ski because I'm afraid I'll enjoy the snug hug of the spandex a little too much" Abrams. Music and Sound Design by Robbie Carver. And booking and research by Maren Larsen.

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