Outdoor Adventure and the Art of Self Reliance, with Nick Offerman

Paddy: [00:00:00] Nice to meet you. I understand that you are an incredibly busy human being, and so I really appreciate you taking the time, to come on our show. how are you, where are you? What's going on?

Nick: thank you. I'm very grateful to be here and to meet you. Also. I'm in St. Louis. I'm working, on a film playing a douche bag chef. which is why I have this haircut.

Paddy: you, you're looking high and tight.

Nick: it's very fashionable.

And then, um, when this gets, this mustache gets dressed up, it's like a weird little forties, like Douglas Fairbanks

Paddy: is that hard for you? Because typically you, you you have quite the blowfish atop of your upper lip,

Nick: thank you. Yeah, I, um, it is, it is, if you can do it with a mustache, I think I've done it

Paddy: Yeah. Well, um, in St. Louis, is it hard for you to be that close to the, Cardinals? ' cause you grew up in Illinois. My assumption is you hate the Cardinals.

Nick: well. They, they are, uh, a rival to my beloved Chicago Cubs. I went to the game a couple nights ago, the bratwurst at Bush Stadium is one of the best goddamn [00:01:00] things I've ever had at a baseball game. And so while I will root against their, team, I no longer feel like a violent enmity towards my rivals.

Paddy: of like, you know what? You guys are serving up some good brats. I mean, are you saying that this are the Bush Stadium brats better than Sheboygan brats?

Nick: Yeah, I mean, I, I wouldn't go go that far. But for, but

Paddy: don't wanna get sacrilegious

Nick: but for Missouri, it was a nice surprise.

MUSIC

PADDYO INTRO:

When I ski bummed in my twenties, my favorite gigs—unsurprisingly—were the ones that had me on the mountain from clock in to clock out, no matter the weather—things like snowmaking, ski patrol, and trail crew. These jobs required me to carry a full day of food and water on my back, and whatever additional gear that day called for. Along with the obvious stuff, like skis or waterproof layers, we used pulaskis, rock [00:02:00] pry bars, chainsaws, explosives, and axes. I started to wear a multitool on my belt. My Dickies were stained with grease and paint and dirt. I had a knife in my pocket at all times.

These jobs required a ruggedness and dependability that I had aspired to since I was a kid—the folks who worked those jobs were tough and self-sufficient and good to have around when the shit hit the fan. These people were handy.

Now, I loved these jobs, but the truth is that I’m not really all that handy. If you can’t fix it with bailing wire, duct tape, and a handful of drill bits … I’m probably not your guy. I’m a total liability around a skil saw, and a speed square … is actually a triangle...huh? If you’re looking for an outdoors person who is actually handy, I’ll refer you to the lifers in my favorite mountain [00:03:00] gigs … or to the actor Nick Offerman.

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I'm certain you know Nick from one of his maaaany memorable roles, like Ron Swanson on Parks And Recreation and General Sidney in the latest Mission Impossible— quietly confident characters who are flannel-coded, steady, and adept. And, when he’s not acting or performing on comedy tours, Nick gets into some legitimately outdoorsy exploits, like building his own canoe and paddling it down the Los Angeles river or hauling weight-inappropriate-but-delicious snacks up peaks in the nearest National Park.

Nick grew up in a small Illinois town, where he learned to swing a hammer, care for livestock, and generally rely on himself in a pinch. These qualities inform everything he does, from playing a character on TV to building character on an adventure in the woods. And they also fuel his lifelong obsession with woodworking.

Nick’s new book is called Little Woodchucks: [00:04:00] Offerman Woodshop’s Guide to Tools and Tomfoolery. On its face, the book is a narrative introduction to his favorite hobby for kids large and small. But it’s really Nick’s Gospel of Know How and Do-It-Yourselfedness—it’s a starting point to building a tough and resourceful identity, because eventually we’re all gonna have to fix a flat tire or build a little shelter in the woods. Hell, if he’d written the book a few years earlier, maybe I’d still be a perma goggle tanned ski patroller instead of sitting here yappin' to you all.

MUSIC

Paddy: First things first, burnt toast. What's your last humbling and or hilarious moment outside?

Nick: Oh gosh. I spent five months in Budapest last year. Now many people don't know that it's actually two cities, Buddha and Pest, and in Hungary they pronounce their Ss with a sh so it's actually Budapest

Paddy: Okay.

Nick: and it's a, a wonderful city to [00:05:00] visit since they kicked the communists out in the early nineties.

it's bisected by the Danube River, so there are a lot of historical, beautiful bridges. And it's very hilly on the pest side. And that's where I lived while I was shooting this, uh, Netflix show. One thing that was gorgeous about the neighborhood is it's festooned with all of these staircases.

So the streets are terraced up these hills and to walk around it's incredibly, uh, good exercise, but also really fun because the, you're walking on these stone staircases that are centuries old.

and I, uh, I got lost with great regularity. And I kind of pride myself on being a map guy,

Paddy: Sure, sure.

Nick: of direction.

And, uh, I don't know what it was, but, uh, I, I was kind of, uh, daydreaming too much was the problem. And I kept. Getting lost and it, it would get even a little scary sometimes. But fortunately, I know how [00:06:00] to look crazy when I get in that situation.

Paddy: So what you just, wilded up your hair and looked a little like wonky eyed and started

drooling bit so nobody mess with you.

Nick: the, the trick is I pretend that I'm seeing, wee folk flying around is that's my foundation.

Paddy: Okay. Yeah,

Nick: I, I'll have a little bit of a smile

and I never make eye contact with the scary people. And so I sort, I sort of. lilt to long, and depending on the tone or how well lit I am, I'll get a disagreement with the fairies that I'm speaking to or just like, look at 'em.

Go. Yeah, there she goes.

Paddy: So your last humbling experience is you in a foreign country, making people believe that you're a couple sandwiches is short of a picnic.

Nick: that's right.

Paddy: Yeah. Nice. I like it. All right, let's get into it.

MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

I am incredibly, , excited about chatting with you because although the, uh, my handiness stops at the end of a roll of duct tape, I think that you and I [00:07:00] actually have a lot in common.

We both grew up in Illinois, Midwestern ness and Midwest sensibility. Work ethic seems to inform our daily lives. Though we've, uh, haven't lived in the Midwest for quite some time. We both are creative people. We both deeply, deeply love meat, especially sausage as we've already established. We both seem to fit the bill as outside magazine's fun.

Uncle, you know the whoop, I got your nose. Kinda whoopy cushion humor. I think we both enjoy very much and this is the main thing. I like you. Fully recognize that I have married up, that my wife is completely out of my league, and on a daily

basis, I'm astounded that I somehow tricked her into marrying me.

And so I feel like we're gonna be fast friends. Yeah. Oh, thank you very much.

Nick: I mean, I, we've been together 25 years and IS uh, the thing is my wife is so discerning, she's so persnickety she curates our lives. She, she's never come downstairs in the morning, uh, without putting on an outfit that could [00:08:00] be entered into an art museum every day. Like, it's not, it's not like on Sundays.

It's every day.

. And I say, Jesus, God, you're incredible.

Paddy: It's great. Hey, high five, man. Great job.

Nick: up top, let's just, let's keep doing the dishes.

Paddy: yeah, no doubt.

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How much of the Midwest is still in you? Like what Midwestern characteristics make you a better actor, a better woodworker, outdoors person, writer, musician, humorist, all of the things that you are.

Nick: I Mean, I, I have this big family in Minuka, Illinois. First and foremost, have a really excellent mom and dad, and still with us. My, dad is now the mayor of our town, hilariously, which, which of course means that it's, it is the kinda thing that, like when I say that, I'm like, that means my mom is incredible, you know?

Uh. If, if, if, if a guy makes it to mayor, it means that the misses is actually the one who should have the building [00:09:00] named after

Paddy: Correct.

Nick: And, and it, my mom is that way. So they brought me up with frugality and decency, and a work ethic that of course I bristled against, you know, as a kid I was like, oh God, you people are so square,

you know, why don't we go to the city and, and get cigarettes and like learn, you know, have you even heard Abbey Road?

You idiots? And then there was a time I got to college, uh, down in Champaign Urbana. I went to theater school

and it hit me. I was, I was like 19 and I had to start balancing my checkbook for the first time and like, you know, live out on my own. And it just hit me. And I called my dad and said, Hey, and I, I was kind of teary and you know, this is, I would've had to use a payphone.

and I said, I just wanted to say like, thank you for all this stuff that I hated you saying to me the last 19 years. And like I bristled against and butted heads with you. I get it [00:10:00] so hard and, and immediately and like you and mom have made me so ready to be a decent citizen. And so whatever douche bag, proclivities I exhibit for the rest of my life, I have that foundation.

And so i've always had that work ethic and, and my mom and dad said, we think you're crazy for going to theater school. We've never heard of such a thing of, no one in my town had ever heard of anyone going into the arts.

So it was, it was, like I said, I was gonna, you know, become an astronaut or something. But they said, as long, just have something to fall back on, like have a way to, to support yourself while you're chasing this dream. And so the tool skills they had instilled in me became that I, I had already worked framing houses as a teenager, and so that, became part of my life.

It became how I paid my bills in my twenties and then inexplicably, it be actually became part of my brand because my, my big break as, uh, [00:11:00] Ron Swanson. on, parks and recreation in involved me being a woodworker and an outdoorsman. and so, of the many lottery tickets that I have won in my adulthood, one of them is that, nature said, we're gonna like, make these wholesome parts of your life, part of your brand.

so that I'm not known, you know, I'm not like Tommy Lee or David Lee Roth or something where I'm known for like making love to porn stars. Uh, um,

Paddy: to bring up at the Thanksgiving, table with the family.

Nick: yeah. So how has your year been

Paddy: How's work going?

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Nick: my family, uh, goes fishing every year in Minnesota.

We started doing it when I was five years old. And it's the one week of the year that like.

The, the job in Budapest, I was like, all right, but you gotta get me to Minnesota third week in July

Paddy: Really? You, you worked it, into the schedule. That's awesome.

Nick: every year, yeah.

Paddy: Where in Minnesota.

Nick: it's, it's 90, 90 miles [00:12:00] straight east from Fargo, so it's in the northwest corner of Minnesota.

Paddy: My wife's family they've had a cabin there for like 120 years. We go every summer. so like, same man. Yeah. If you can deal with, the like, emotional change that you have to handle because of the humidity and the mosquitoes,

Nick: Yeah.

Paddy: it's, it's great.

Nick: I mean, there's something to the, the hardship of it that the, you know, traditionally there's, there's no tv, you know, there's no,

we, we sort of shut the channels off and, uh, what I'm driving toward is embellishing the answer to your last question, which is like, what, what is still Midwestern in me?

and part of it is, being in a family that sits down to dinner together or that vacations together and says, let's play cards. Let's sing songs. Let's cook food together and just enjoy each other rather

than retreat to our isolated rooms and like put on headphones and play our own separate video games or

Paddy: yeah,

Nick: One of the things we do [00:13:00] every, uh, Monday and, and Thursday night on the fishing trip is we have a big fish fry. And me and my brother and my dad are in charge of the 20 of us. we run the deep fryer. You check it out from the lodge

Paddy: yeah.

Nick: and it's a, it's a rolling cart with a propane tank and a big burner

and a thing.

And a couple years ago, the, the basket that goes into the cast iron bucket of oil disappeared. And it was time for the fish fry. And my brother and I went into the garage of the cabin resort and found some, like, uh, it's a, there's a small, uh, like quarter inch square version of chicken wire that I think is just called like hardware cloth or something.

And it's, it's like, it's like, it's bigger than a screen, but it's, it's like a. A window screen and it's made of metal.

we took some of that and some galvanized wire and an old piece of, uh, window hardware and basically made a basket in which [00:14:00] to fry the fish.

Paddy: This is, this is so Midwest. I love

it So

Nick: and he, he had a piece of walnut in his truck.

So we sh we shaved that down into the, the handle. And to me, that is one that may be the greatest thing I've ever made in my life. Like we, we, we took our ingenuity, like b big, weird wood chucks, and we're like, we have fire, we have oil, we have fish, we have cornmeal. Fuck. And we made a, a way to combine that all into delicious deep fried fish.

But the interesting thing is. Because I get asked that a lot. I get asked about the Midwest or Midwest values, and it's kind of like when people off also often ask me about being manly or being macho. I say, I don't think I'm particularly manly, macho or Midwestern. I think I'm rural and I have, a good, uh, [00:15:00] self-sufficient, competence.

I find that everywhere, like with Yankees in New England and with like lumberjacks in the Pacific Northwest and like cowboys in the southwest, it's people who aren't wealthy and so they know how to do shit to make their lives happy. It's just that simple. And you know who does that?

Women, men.

gender non-con like adults, children. and so, uh, usually try to, to, to deflect and say people have good manners everywhere and a work ethic everywhere. I don't know what it is about the, um, the Midwest that makes people want us to like, have a specific sort of cheese, a dairy and sausage fed version of it.

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Paddy: So how well known is that characteristic or that part of you and your craftsmanship known in like the la crowd? Like for example, like do you ever walk around a, a fancy shindig and the host will come up to you and say, like, Nick, you have to try the caviar.

Also, I have a squeaky door [00:16:00] that I was hoping that you could take a look at,

Nick: gratifyingly people do. Uh, I've never been at a, at a gathering where anyone offered me caviar. Uh, so I'm still, I'm still ascending,

Paddy: Okay. Okay. Deal, deal.

Nick: But yeah, gratifyingly quite a bit. people often ask me, uh, furniture repair or home repair or woodworking, finish.

Questions, which I just love. , I can't always answer them, but I, if I can't, I know where to steer the people.

and I really appreciate that.

Paddy: What about woodworking makes it so important to you? Like, do you have a funny anecdote about it becoming your identity? I mean, I know you said, you started in, high school, but that to me just seems like, you know, driven by a little bit of extra change in your pocket.

You know, when did it become not this thing that was like driven by, , money and it was like, oh, I actually love this and this is like artistry

Nick: yeah. Well this, it is interesting. It's, [00:17:00] it's a sort of a, an expansive question. I think the first one was like my dad was an amateur furniture maker.

he grew, he and mom grew up on farms a few miles to each side of the house I grew up in.

, Their high school was my junior high. Like it's that kinda

historical small town thing. And dad taught me to, use tools as a carpenter.

And so when I was like 16 or 17, I started framing houses for these, two brothers in town suddenly I was getting paid 20 bucks an hour as a teenager to like climb up to, to like show off my strength and like haul lumber up a ladder

and, and, you know, uh, install rafters and like sheet a roof with four by eight sheets of plywood.

It was fun and thrilling and I was getting paid what seemed at the time, just an exorbitant amount of money.

that's never left where I was like, wow, I can like use this hammer and these saws and this, bag full of chisels to get a [00:18:00] bunch of your money. Fantastic.

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In my twenties in Chicago building scenery. There was one guy named Brad Bunn, who was such a nice guy, great carpenter, and we made fun of him ' cause he had this roll of special chisels of these like woodworking chisels.

in theater you don't do anything in an actual precious way. You quickly slap up the facade of quality. You don't want, you don't want anything to actually have quality. You want to come in and, and then have theater artists paint

the countertop so that it looks like marble or what have you.

And so I've, I have, had the opportunity to apologize to Brad Buns since I then became an absolute disciple of worshiping your sharp chisels. And like, I, I totally became even a way bigger geek than he was.

Paddy: Also, it seems to me that like you live, you know, maybe unconsciously by the motto of like how you do anything is how you do everything. So everything that you do has to be up to the standard.

Nick: my dad always said, [00:19:00] if you're gonna do a job, do it right.

Paddy: Yeah, exactly.

Nick: And it applies to every aspect, I mean,

Paddy: I mean, because to, to me, you seem like a doer of things and a doer of, of many things. You somehow split your time, like acting. You're writing books, you're going on adventures. You're practicing expert carpentry and woodworking. You're playing music. You've got, you know, national tours your one man show and on and on and on.

So how

large of a fear do you have around idle hands?

Nick: I mean, uh, pretty large. I have lost time to Jack Assery, whether it's like drunkenness in the pub

At age, like 28. I was couch surfing in la. And I lost two solid weeks to video games with my friend.

We ordered pizza and, and it was so, you know, like most masturbation, it was quite, uh, gratifying.

And then at the end I was like, oh, that was, I don't ever want to do that again

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Paddy: while we're on [00:20:00] the pulpit of do it yourself, ism, uh, preaching the gospel of, self-sufficiency, like, let's take a little bit out of the abstract and put it more into the concrete. Like what outdoor adventure would you be comfortable taking on with no preparation this weekend?

Nick: I'm in St. Louis at the moment. so the. Thing that springs to mind is the Mississippi River, on my doorstep. and so, you know, I would be down to, get in a boat and get on the river, and get into some trouble. I, I would assume that I would get into trouble because it's, it's a, it's a mighty

Paddy: It is. It

Nick: I don't, know if you've heard of the big muddy, but, um, but I think that would be fun, I think I'd love to slap together a raft and head out with a pole and some night crawlers.

Paddy: How very huckleberry of you?

Nick: and then you get out somewhere, you know, uh, a little farther down the line and see if you can sell some catfish to buy a train ticket home.

Paddy: What about given a few weeks to prepare?

Nick: I've [00:21:00] never, uh, done anything that would require a few weeks to prepare. But I mean, something that, that I've always been attracted to that I don't know if I'll ever, be able to stop doing what I love, which is working.

I love what I do for my jobs, and so, the thought of like, even pausing for six months. I'm like, I, I don't, I don't want to like the, I I, I'm having too much fun, but I've always been very attracted by the idea of hiking the Appalachian Trail or the Pacific Crest Trail or, the Continental Divide.

Paddy: What would you under no circumstances attempt to do ever, no matter the prep time.

Nick: um, I guess, uh, like kayaking, um, you know, off a waterfall, like

Paddy: No doubt. Yeah.

Nick: I mean I could, I'm 55, so by now I could even say any kayaking that would require a helmet. I guess pretty much ex anything extreme.

Like the, hiking in California, I've run into [00:22:00] mountain bikers with full like storm trooper armor

Paddy: Oh yeah, yeah.

Nick: that, that are pounding down trails so dangerously fast and I've, I've maybe have yelled at a couple of 'em because it's on a shared trail where I'm like, if I wasn't nimble, you would've just put me in the hospital.

but, and I just stop and think, what in the world are, what is, are you even enjoying? Like,

Paddy: Yeah.

Nick: You're not taking in your surroundings. I, I guess I understand in my youth that I could be thrilled by the adrenaline of like, let's, let's go down this path.

Fast enough that we're just the side of injury.

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 PADDYO VO:

More from Nick Offerman after the break.

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Paddy: I heard you once to describe time outside, especially a difficult pursuit like, you know, a seriously steep hike in brutal cold, being similar to something like building a rock wall on a friend's farm in the pouring rain. [00:23:00] Both being deeply meaningful because they each give you a deep quote, pleasure of getting something done.

Can you explain that and then how you find that both in the workshop and in the woods? do you wake up each morning and you're like, I have to do the hardest thing possible today that I can do.

Nick: I don't, I don't do that. Um, because, uh, my, connective tissue has asked me not to do that anymore. I had this wonderful sensei, who actually, we just lost him at 92. Uh, Sato is his name, and he, and he taught Japanese arts at my college.

and he's this incredible figure in my life. He married me and Megan with, uh, tea ceremony. And so he, he, he very much a powerful Mr. Miyagi figure in my life. And I'm talking Pat Marita not the later, karate Kid movies. if you, if you haven't kids, if you haven't seen the, the original, trust me, you need some wax on, wax off.

Paddy: True.

Nick: So [00:24:00] the, the greatest thing my sensei ever said to me was always maintain the attitude of a student.

And so it ties in very, uh, powerfully with how I wake up every morning because I go to bed every night thinking about what I get to do the next day as I maintain the attitude of a student. Getting to work as an actor, I keep getting more and more challenging jobs. So that's. Wonderful. When, when I get offered a part, if it's not scary to me, I generally am not interested. But if I think, oh boy, I'm gonna have to like learn some something new here, either emotionally or a sword fight or an accent that's scary.

I'm like, great. I'm still a freshman.

I, I still might get dumped at prom. everything's on the stakes. I, I live with stakes and with my woodworking, it's the same thing where like right now I'm working on a batch of ukuleles which I love, but it's also on my way to [00:25:00] acoustic guitars, which are really scary to me.

To, put the time and effort and, materials into trying to make a guitar that doesn't suck is terrifying.

Paddy: How do you stay a student then in the outdoors? What do you do to make sure that you're still the freshman at the senior prom when you go on an outdoor adventure?

Nick: Well, I'd say my, my main things these days, are, are hiking and cycling

and, I mean, you know, partly thanks to fine publications like your own, I use the information provided by my, powerfully betters, to say what is challenging here to me? And I mean, my dad, you know, in teaching me how to operate boats and how to navigate on the lakes of Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota.

One of the most important things he taught me is, is to respect the forces of nature and, and, and weather and temperature and so forth, as well as animals.

and so that's [00:26:00] where I think, that's where I find it is, like, traveling to new places, finding a park or a hike or a, a cycling route.

I always go into it with some trepidation because, ' there's always gonna be something surprising.

and whether it's at a hiking pace or a cycling pace, for me it's, it, that's the thrill of it is like, I'm like, I've done some whitewater rafting and I really love it. Uh, it's really fun,

Paddy: Oh, it's the best.

Nick: but I greatly prefer my canoe on a medium river.

I'm not looking to. For, for thrills anymore.

I'm looking for deer.

Paddy: The difference between scrambled eggs and frittata.

Nick: Yes, exactly.

I like to, I like to bake my eggs once in awhile

Paddy: Yeah.

Nick: enjoy the cathedral of Mother Nature, whether it's in Arizona or you know, the Yukon and I, I'm not a, total bush whacker, like I love a path.

I, I love for someone to have come [00:27:00] before and

Paddy: yeah, yeah.

Nick: installed some really cool stone steps and whatnot. But still, uh, I, I, I love to, to challenge myself because I have the right gear and I can, carry what I need with me. it's a really gratifying adventure. it's a way to use, the magical aspects of the human body at very little cost. you Don't have to do anything, but like put your shoes on, and get going.

And the thing is, everything up from that is some version of a puzzle. And we, funny monkeys love a puzzle. And so even in the same way that like a hike. If I go stay in Big Bend Park and I, and I look up all the hikes, I'm looking at puzzles and I say, okay, I know what I can do.

I know how high and long and far I can go. I know what I've got in my backpack, or I'm looking at dining room tables and I'm like, okay, I know I've got this, uh, these mahogany planks or what, whatever it is. it's an ever [00:28:00] increasing, uh, set of puzzles

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At your core, beaming from inside of you seems this, must have sense of. Self and sense of self-reliance and on its face. I think the new book, little Woodchucks, is that it's this fun do it yourself woodworking guide for kiddos. But it also reads as this like problem solving and cleverness inspiring manifesto with a very healthy dash of the gospel of Huckleberry-ian mischief, which I so relate to.

Are you trying to get kids to make things with their hands or are you trying to incite a DIY revolution?

Nick: I, uh, I, I just teared up a little bit for sincerely, that is exactly what I'm going for. But here's the thing. I'm not, uh, you know, uh, George Saunders or, you know, Tolkien. I don't have a wildly affecting imagination. But something I do have that I think [00:29:00] is powerfully valuable is a nose for great teaching.

And so I can take these great and wise teachings that I have received and say, lemme tell you guys about my teacher and my mom and dad and, and Wendell Berry and Michael Pollen. Early on, I realized, it has brought me so much, happiness in my life to be able to, make things.

I, feel so competent in so many ways in the actual world, in ways that I, that I feel incompetent online. And, I, I don't have an interest in sort of keeping up with, uh, where technology is taking us.

And so, so, so this book in particular, I would've written anyway, uh, because no matter what decade we're in, I want to encourage everyone to learn how to make things with their hands. But recently, our society is so quickly and blithely being led into a world of AI

and the sensibility that like, [00:30:00] well, I guess, I guess this is cool if robots decide everything and, and a corporation drives my car instead of me.

What is so valuable about being human, warts and all, like for better or worse, that's the whole point, is that we try things and often suck at them,

and that's how we figure out what our powers are. So, uh, that is where this, this book was born. and by the way, my co-author is this incredibly powerful, uh, woman named Lee, who ran my wood shop for 10 years and comes from a, , family of Berkeley hippies who are like immediately and casually way more. Outdoorsy than me. Like whenever I go see them, they're like, oh, we're gonna be hiking up in Marin.

I'm like, great. Like, uh, every time I see them I learn about some new, uh, water bottle or backpack [00:31:00] or,

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Paddy: One of the things that's interesting to me here is the connection of your handiness to the outdoors, because your handiness is also a way for you to deepen your relationship to the outdoors. It seems to me you wrote an essay for outside about making a canoe huckleberry, uh, and paddling the LA River. It's a very hilarious and a very beautiful read, and I'm wondering if paddling in a craft that you crafted yourself makes an outing like that even better or sweeter. And that is in part, you know, the message of the book.

Nick: yes, thank you, for the compliment. I, uh, absolutely. the first time I, built a. A canoe, was huckleberry and I, built her in a shop in Red Hook, Brooklyn,

um, and, and launched her in the, uh, in the East River right, off the New York Harbor, which was a terrible idea. And, um, and, and that, that was terrifying because it was way too big of water.

and it's funny, uh, Conan [00:32:00] O'Brien is a, is a dear friend, and he refused to come watch the launch because he's, he was convinced that it was gonna be like, is it, is it the opening of the monkeys where they go, they take their boat in the water and it just keeps sinking? He, he, he was convinced that I was just gonna sink my, hard won canoe.

So then, I built a couple other, boats, And they're, and they're all very precious to me. The, uh, my first two canoes were also Ron Swanson's canoes on Parks and Rec.

Paddy: Oh, wow.

Nick: and so when I, chose to take it down the LA River, which actually has this wonderfully navigable, uh, three mile stretch

where when they, you know, most of the LA River looks like the car racing scene in Greece

Escape from LA where it's just a big expanse of concrete. It's like a huge gutter.

Paddy: Yeah,

Nick: Um,

Paddy: that's right.

Nick: the, there was this three mile section, in, in a neighborhood called [00:33:00] Frog Town, where they left to the bottom natural. And it's really fascinating. The water's actually really clean. Um, there are pools that are 12, 16 feet deep. There's a lot of trees.

There's a preponderance of bird life. And so it was a really fun way to, to, uh, see the stretch and write about it. But there are also some fast moving water sections, so it just really upped the stakes, uh, by taking my beautiful, handmade cedar canoe

Paddy: Three

new coats of, of varnish on

Nick: Yeah, the timing was just that I had just finished like refinishing it and I just beat the hell out of it.

So there is that feeling, but at the same time, there's an abandon. where, and I've always said this, it, it's not a piece of furniture. It's made to have this kind of fun.

And the wonderful thing is it withstood the fun. At the end of the day, I was really proud that I took my canoe because, [00:34:00] because it didn't sink.

Paddy: Well it didn't sink, but also I feel like, you know, not to give away the end of the essay for anyone who hasn't, had the delight of reading your column for outside. but you know, you flip it over and everybody in the group is like, you know, 'cause it got. It's ass beat, you know?

And, and you were like, no, no, no.

Boys, boys, boys. It's all good. It's all good. Like, this is the point of the canoe,

you know, it's supposed to get beat up. It's supposed to get used. It's not supposed to, you know, sit on the shelf and in that way, I kind of think, you're giving the reader a bit of a, a, a life lesson.

Would you say that's, that's the point. Be the canoe.

Nick: all of my philosophy. What there is of it, boils down to an agrarian sensibility that I've picked up over the years. partly in thanks to Michael Pollan, but, uh, because he was the ambassador to Wendell Berry. And, uh, Wendell Berry is this Kentucky agrarian, and he just writes with so much common sense and affection for everybody around him, what I've learned in my [00:35:00] life because I grew up getting my hands dirty, uh, out in the garden, building stuff with my family.

Uh, working in the kitchen, working on the farm. The first thing I did for money was shovel pig shit in my grandparents' pig barn. My grandpa would give me a quarter. To shovel all the shit out of the basement, which is where the sows were with their litters. And I was like, this, I love farming. This is incredible.

Like

Paddy: yeah. How could you not fall in love with a job like that?

Nick: I mean, it only got, it has gotten better from there, but

Paddy: Yeah,

Nick: so, so going back to what you said about be the canoe, I made this canoe to like have this incredibly vivacious life experience, not to hang it in a bar or hang it in my living room and, and never get it dirty or never get a scratch on it.

And in the same way that we're talking about tools and, and getting outside and like braving the elements, whatever that may be or, outdoor based [00:36:00] challenges in the same way. So many people no longer engage in any activity. Like, like, uh, somebody. know, drops something under a car. They're like, well, now what do I do?

We have to call somebody. 'cause I can't, it's not like I can get the knees of my pants dirty. like by and large, nobody thinks you can get your hands dirty anymore. all of this is, is my soapbox of like, get your hands dirty. Know how your life is put together, understand how things work.

And my specialty is to make you a table with wood and tools, uh, or make you a canoe paddle but it fits for all walks of life and all of the things that we surround ourselves with, and the way we use our natural resources.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: I've heard you say that like everybody in my family, you know, in their professional career is of service teachers, you know, firefighters, uh, paramedics, things like this. And I'm just this clown out in la. But what seems to be the connective tissue [00:37:00] in, uh, your work in front of the camera on stage in the shop, in your writing seems to be that you're trying to give people a message, and make people feel something so that they can go out and do, would you say that's That's right.

Nick: Yeah. Th uh, thank you. That's, that is a great distillation. that is what I'm after. , And it's funny because it's like I think it's at the heart of a lot of religious teachings, which I, I was raised Catholic, but I'm no longer, uh, subscribed to an organized religion.

But I do think I have a spirituality and it's based in living a life of service. And,, What I'm simply trying to impart to others is to live a life of service back to my sensei Sato, one of the sort of zen Cohen's that he would impart was the way of the arts is the way of the Buddha.

And what that means is, which sounds pretty general, but what it means is figuring out what your art is. For me, let's just say it's acting. figuring that out and saying, okay, I want to use this. I want to figure out what [00:38:00] my talent is, and then use it to be of service.

Thank God some people their way of their art is to be an accountant to like do distasteful things, like

balance our checkbooks or whatever. Um,

Paddy: God

Nick: but I mean, yes, amen. And that, but that has really shaped my life. Like by using these arts, which turns out I can also write a book or like sing you a song on stage, and I, and I can deliver some sort of medicine that way, then that makes me feel like, uh, you know, I'll always be a, a shitting, clumsy human man, but that gives me something to shoot for.

It gives me something to aspire to, rather than just saying, well, I'm a shitty guy so I might as well just indulge myself.

MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

Paddy: It is now time for the final [00:39:00] ramble, one piece of gear you can't live without.

Nick: uh, uh, camelback,

Paddy: best outdoor snack.

Nick: uh, almond butter.

Paddy: That is a, I did not see that coming. That is a curve ball. Why almond butter?

Nick: I don't know, I, I, um, uh, maybe it was just because I, I was there. Uh, there's a little town called Marathon Texas that I hit on my way into Big Bend Park, this cool guy runs a, he, he's a former river guide and he runs a little French grocery store and they make the, their own almond butter.

So I took this little, pint mason jar of almond butter. And, most of my hikes are like four to five hours to the top of a mountain, and then hopefully another way back down again. So the top of the mountain is a wonderful place to indulge in extra calories.

Paddy: yeah. Oh yeah.

Nick: calories are free and you can, you can pound a Guinness up there and it no, no one will ever notice.

And so if I, I find almond [00:40:00] butter, uh, really satisfying in that, in that setting.

Paddy: Right on. I have not heard that yet, and that is blowing my mind. I love it.

Nick: but, but it tells you how stu, how stupid of a hiker I am that I care. Like, it doesn't bother me to add the weight of a pint jar,

Paddy: Kind of. It was

really clanging around in a six pack of Guinness, man. Like, what the hell?

Nick: yeah.

Paddy: What is your hottest outdoor hot take?

Nick: Gosh, I wish I had a real sassy answer to this. I, I mean, I, uh, I think it is a hot take. I, uh, am friendly on the trail. I like to greet people.

I know that's kind of poo-pooed, but, uh, I'm, I'm that guy where I'm like, how's it going?

Paddy: Do you ever get double takes? Are people like, wait, is that

Nick: there, there's, there's a funny story that I'll, that I'll tell you briefly, when the pandemic started, uh, and everything was so weird and no one knew what the rules were

Paddy: [00:41:00] Right? Yeah.

Nick: And we were terrified. We were like washing our groceries and all that.

Paddy: yes.

Nick: Uh, we were doing a hike up in Marin County, , in, uh, Inverness.

We were hiking over a small set of hills to get to a beach, and we were passing people and everybody was masked and everybody was also wearing like sun hats and shades and whatever.

And we passed, some people and I, you know, I said like, good afternoon. And we, we went about 20 more steps and, uh, a woman's voice called back Nick.

And, I was like, yeah. And, and it was Aubrey Plaza. good afternoon. It's so stupidly recognizable.

So I've, I've learned now I, I greet people in a fake voice.

Paddy: What's the fake voice?

Nick: Hey, what's up?

Paddy: MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

[00:42:00] PADDYO VO:

Nick Offerman is an actor, author, humorist, and woodworker. You have seen him onscreen as Bill in The Last of Us -- which won him an the Emmy oh by the way-- as Ron Swanson on Parks and Recreation, as  Beef Tenderloin Tobin in the hilarious animated sitcom “The Great North," and tons of other incredible and memoriable roles. He has maaaany new films and tv shows in the works, so keep your eyes and ears a-fixed for his flannel-coded characters.

Nick has also written five New York Times Bestselling books, and his latest book Little Woodchucks: Offerman Woodshop’s Guide to Tools and Tomfoolery is a narrative woodworking guide for kids aged zero to 100. It is great. You can preorder it now or find it on bookshelves on October 14. You should buy it, it's lovely. In his spare time, Nick can be found at his happy place, [00:43:00] the Offerman Woodshop in Los Angeles, building hand-crafted items from wood, ranging from spoons and canoes to ukuleles.

 And here is your weekly reminder, beloved listeners, that we want to hear from ya. Email your pod reactions, guest nominations, that interestign thing you read on a truckstop bathroom wall, and whatever else you want to tell and/or ask us to Outside Podcast At Outside Inc Dot Com.

The Outside Podcast is hosted and produced by me, Paddy O'Connell. But you can call me PaddyO. The show is also produced by the storytelling wizard, Micah "If the doohickey is broken, you'll need the big thingamabob with the red handle or the silver whatsithowsits with the turney thingy" Abrams. Music and Sound Design by Robbie Carver. And booking and research by Maren Larsen.

The Outside Podcast is made possible by our Outside Plus members. Learn about all the extra rad benefits and [00:44:00] become a member yourself at Outside Online Dot Com Slash Pod Plus.