Life Lessons Learned Hanging Off a 2,600-Foot Cliff For 9 Days, with Sasha DiGiulian

Sasha DiGiulian EP Draft

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Sasha: We were 10 days in, and by the eighth day we saw this weather forecast coming and it was like two days of rain. so we knew, okay, we're gonna have to like on our 10th day hunker down we are targeting that we would make it to our next base camp, which is at 2,600 feet, 400 feet from the top. Um, and we had two portal ledges. So prior to that, the first. week plus, uh, my climbing partner Elliot and I were sharing a portal edge, which to your question is a four foot by six foot, essentially like a tent structure

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: made of dyma.

And its bottom is quite pulled tight, so it has like the firmness to sleep on. And then there's a rain shelter, which essentially a tent that sits

Paddy: Yeah,

Sasha: the port ledge to prevent, you know, rain from seeping in. So

Paddy: yeah.

Sasha: but vertical, pretty small.

Paddy: like a tent, but like a, like a off, like a awful, awful, awful tent.

Sasha: like a tiny tent.

Paddy: six five a deuce 50, like this sounds like a tent that I could wear as like a [00:01:00] boutonniere, oh, there's rain coming. Better get in my tent and I just place it on my head a hilariously small tent.

Sasha: like a Gore-Tex sombrero.

Paddy: Yes, exactly.

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PADDYO VO:

Picture this: You’re staying at a cabin in the woods for a week of outdoor fun, and an unforeseen winter storm rolls in, delaying your departure for an indeterminate amount of time. What would you do? Probably hunker down, make a fire, crack open a book or start a movie marathon, right? I certainly would. But what if, instead of a cozy cabin, you were stuck in a tent. But instead of a tent on the ground, it was a tent hanging off a cliff 2,600 feet in the air. And, instead of a tent, it was really just a very small frame of aluminum poles holding up a thin piece of nylon? You’d probably try to figure out how to get out of there, right?

[00:02:00] Which is why you’re probably not a big wall climber.

Big wall climbing is like normal rock climbing, except the thing you’re climbing is thousands of feet tall, the climb can take days or even weeks, and you bring most of what you need along with you. In addition to typically being elite level climbers, people who do this also excel at breaking down obscenely huge things into slightly less huge things, and slightly less huge things into just really really big things, and so on, until it’s just a series of moves up 15 or 20 feet of rock.

They’re intensely focused, able to hold a gazillion details in their brain at once, and bizarrely comfortable sleeping on one of those not-tents I was just describing for nights on end—they’re called portaledges, if you’re wondering. And, recently, climber Sasha Digulian and her partner Elliot Faber found themselves stuck in [00:03:00] their portaledges when a freak winter storm hit as they attempted the Platinum route on Yosemite’s El Capitan. Any normal person would have turned tail and ran; even most climbers would probably have bailed; but Sasha and Elliot figured, “hey, we’re only 400 feet from the top. Let's just wait out this storm and then we can send this thing.”

Now, the Platinum route is no normal route; it’s among the most challenging on one of the world’s most challenging walls. And this was no normal storm—nine days of relentless rain, wind, snow, and ice. Then again, Sasha is no normal climber.

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Sasha’s climbing CV is legendary in the sport. She began competing at seven years old and quickly racked up national and world championships as easily as you or I snag a cookie from the cupboard. A deal with her parents required that she maintain straight A’s [00:04:00] in order to travel for competitions, and she rode that record all the way to Columbia University. As a freshman, she developed her own energy bars and—because this is just how she thinks—registered and trademarked the business that became Send Bars.

After graduation, Sasha made the switch from indoor climbing competitions to outdoor big wall challenges, and her list of accomplishments grew commensurate with the size of the climbs: first woman to climb Magic Mushroom on the Eiger, Mora Mora in Madagascar, and the Canadian big wall trilogy, to name only a few.

Sasha is, needless to say, supremely driven, which is why she stuck it out on Platinum, and why Platinum is her latest “first.”

So I wanted to talk to Sasha, because I think we can all learn something helpful from the way she breaks down these awe-inspiring vertical expeditions into manageable pieces. And, if you don’t think [00:05:00] that applies to your life in any way, how about this: How in the name of king sized beds and indoor plumbing do you gut out nine freezing, soaking days on a tiny scrap of nylon 2,600 feet off the deck without going so deliriously stir crazy you wind up duct taping your camping slash climbing partner in their sleeping bag and scribbling "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" over and over again on your bags of freeze dried GORP?! That bit will put your next office spat into perspective, my friends.

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Paddy: first things first, burnt toast. What's your last humbling and or hilarious moment outside,

Sasha: I mean, embarrassing. I had malaria on a portaledge in Madagascar. That was pretty humbling, embarrassing, and, uh, all of the above because there's nothing like, uh, trying to go to the bathroom with that situation.

Paddy: Oh my God.

Sasha: that,

Paddy: how many [00:06:00] people were in the portaledge with you?

Sasha: Oh, it was me and, uh, my climbing partner who happened to be my boyfriend at the time. And, uh, the person who is filming.

Paddy: How did you navigate the, were you like, alright, turn around boys?

Sasha: A little bit like that. I mean,

Paddy: Oh,

Sasha: the, the funny thing about a port ledge is like, or climbing a big wall in general is probably the most ubiquitous question that people ask in the

Paddy: yeah,

Sasha: on TikTok, is

Paddy: yeah,

Sasha: how do you go to the bathroom? so the

Paddy: But also it's like, well, how do you go to the bathroom when you have malaria oh God. So what? Yeah. What's the short answer?

Sasha: Short answer is, you know, outside on a portal edge, you use a wag bag.

the like medium answer is, I ended up going to a hospital when I got back, but I actually finished the climb with with malaria. The thing about it was it got like progressively worse and worse and worse. [00:07:00] So luckily I was on the front end of. the disease,

Paddy: My mouth is a gape here. This I have, this is, this is awful. This sounds terrible. I mean, like, I can hardly like, like sit up in bed when I have like the common cold this Jesus.

Sasha: but

Paddy: I mean,

Sasha: like that. You know, like when you're in it, you just do what you need to do.

Paddy: You're just in it with malaria, it's kind of chill. Don't worry, everybody. Okay.

Alright, let's get into it.

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So I'm actually hoping to do something a little bit different in our chat today.

You know, in our research, something interesting popped up and made our team over here kind of go like, Hmm. Your academic career is something that is often noted as kind of like a shorthand of how much of a superhuman you are. But it's done really quickly. it's almost like a footnote in articles, and or documentaries that you've been in.

It's not something that like we ever really found that's explored into any depth. So I wanted to spend [00:08:00] some time kind of digging around in your history of egg headery, let's call it. Are you cool with that?

Sasha: Yeah,

Paddy: Okay, let's, let's talk about your big giant brain here, because growing up you were a high level competition climber.

You're sending harder climbs at an age younger than any of your peers, but meanwhile, you're getting straight A's and on the path to an Ivy League education. So do you think that you're a bit of a perfectionist?

Sasha: Um. I definitely have some perfectionist tendencies I'm such a, a individual sport athlete in the way that my perfectionism pertains strictly to me. Like what I can, you know, control in my

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: can show up, how I can work hard. Um, but when it comes to like other people, it's a lot easier for me to like, go with the flow and be flexible with plans and all of that. But when it comes to getting my own list done, like whether it's [00:09:00] studying, showing up to meetings, um, executing my training, that's where I feel very, um, yeah, maybe perfectionist or just driven to get it all done.

Paddy: soft with others, hard on yourself.

Sasha: Yeah, that's probably a short way to say it.

Paddy: I mean, do you think that that has held you back at all or hindered you at all?

Sasha: I definitely beat myself up, uh, over not getting stuff done or not feeling like I did my best. I would definitely say that the competitions where I slipped and fell earlier than I know that I could have and, you know, climbs that I didn't feel like I did my best on or like, you know, ones that I didn't send.

'cause that's what's often not reported is all the climbs that you try, that

Paddy: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sasha: but I think that it's helped me. I mean, it's given me a lot of drive and while I may not be the kindest to myself, I think that that's something I'm like continuously gonna be working on. And that's what therapy is

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: really great for. [00:10:00] I,

Paddy: No doubt.

Sasha: I'm really happy that I do have a. Mentality That is hard on myself because it enables me to like keep going and working

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: in the direction of like seeing what's possible.

Paddy: do you think though that the thing that connects both like, oh, I'm gonna get is the best grades I can possibly get and any competition that I enter, I'm gonna try my damnedest to win that thing. Where does this like drive for high level achievement come from?

Is that something that all of your family members have? Or is that, are you kind of the outlier? Is everybody else a little like, uh, more laid back and mellow and you're like, screw you guys. I'm not sitting around on a couch today.

Yeah, I, I would definitely say that my family's really hardworking. You know, I grew up with a dad who really inspired me on the business side. He ran his own business, and my mom chose to raise my brother and me, , after she quit working. She is like a full-time mom, really making my life my [00:11:00] brother's

Mm-hmm.

Sasha: to go and do all these, hobbies and sports and extracurriculars.

But my parents definitely stressed my mom, especially the importance of getting straight A's. you Know, it's funny I haven't spoken too much about this, but if I were to break down the why behind it is my parents really valued education.

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: And I know that my mom and my dad saw education as a way to have freedom over your life.

And

Paddy: Hmm

Sasha: you, pave your way by having good grades opens opportunities to do what you want to do, and for no reason other than I think. Perhaps the vanity of it. My dad always wanted me to go to an Ivy League

Paddy: mm-hmm.

Sasha: go to an Ivy League school.

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: my dad's side of the family immigrated from Italy

Paddy: Uhhuh.

Sasha: and my mom's Canadian my mom's side of the family was very educated, my dad's [00:12:00] side.

Um, all entrepreneurial.

So the guiding line through my early experiences with climbing was if I got straight A's I could miss school and go to Europe for a competition, you know, when I was 12

Paddy: That's a pretty good motivator.

Sasha: could be, if my

Paddy: Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

Sasha: explore this hobby.

Paddy: Did you see the good grades less as like, oh, this is like a burden that my parents are putting on me and more of like, oh, this is kind of like my get outta jail free card.

Sasha: Yeah, I, I would say it was more the latter. I, I've never been the, the smartest, I've never been the best climber, whatever it is. But I know that if I were to boil down, what I feel very confident about is my work ethic.

Paddy: Hmm.

Sasha: I know how hard I work and how much I show up to just give myself the best chance at succeeding.

And maybe I learned that from learning what it took to like, get [00:13:00] good grades in school.

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: not totally sure. I think it was always very systematic for me. I mean, it was like, you do this, you go to this, you do this, you go to this.

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Paddy: the lives and accomplishments of professional athletes can be inspirational. They can be aspirational, but it's pretty difficult, I think, for regular old Joe Schmos to find relatability in folks who seem singular, who are, you know, the best of the best in the world at what they do.

You have achieved remarkable things in your climbing, and it is also true that there's not a lot about big wall climbing that the rest of us can really relate to. It's extreme in the,

I haven't had malaria. I have, being on a portal edge, not even stuck in a portal edge, is, being on a portal edge is my worst nightmare.

So what what strikes me here about all of this is like, despite all the, the courage and all of the very obvious athletic [00:14:00] skill and, uh, risk involved in this thing that you do on some level, the relatable piece here is that the big wall. Is your workplace, it's your office. Do you see it like that?

Sasha: No,

Paddy: Really?

Sasha: I guess, I guess the act of climbing I see as like what brings me a lot of joy and drive

workplace for me comes more in the planning, the figuring out like, you know, what is it that I feel really excited to go and do, putting together, like. A pitch to get some funding to like cover the actual, like, filming of it and kind

Paddy: yeah,

yeah. yeah.

Sasha: to being a pro climber.

technically It is my workplace, you know, when I'm like climbing and, climbing, well,

The workplace being like the gym

Paddy: Sure, sure.

The emails, the phone calls, the, the meetings and stuff like that. Like I totally understand that. Yeah.

Sasha: the moment you take the like sourdough [00:15:00] loaf out of the oven and it's like actually fluffy

Paddy: Oh,

baking. Now you're talking about my frigging language here

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I don't mean to suggest that climbing isn't fun for you and you see it as some kind of like, office task, but I do wanna talk a little bit about what I find interesting in the interpersonal level of things.

You know, like you're climbing with a partner, essentially. That partner is a colleague, right? You both are there wherever there is to do a job to accomplish this thing. And so I'm wondering if like office dynamics ever show up there, and like how you navigate, say, any office conflict when you have a coworker who's also like in charge of your safety.

You know, it's like Linda from HR is the person who has you on belay. Do you know what I mean?

Sasha: I, I do, I understand your point, and I actually very intrinsically understand it because I've taken a [00:16:00] lot of the. Ingredients of what's been a successful climbing partner into the ingredients of who I hire at Send

Paddy: Okay. What are those ingredients?

Sasha: it's a communication is key.

Paddy: Okay.

Sasha: is number one around, what, what you're feeling, what the voids

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: what, you know, emotions on a wall change quite often.

Like setting out the intention before you even leave the ground over.

what you want out of that goal. I

Paddy: yeah.

Sasha: like. One of the things that, I mean, if you approach Workday and you're like, what is this week's priority? Or what are

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: that we need to get through? What are the hurdles? What needs work?

You said communication. Was the thing you look for in business and also in a climbing partner.

Paddy: And I want to kind of, uh, twist on that, knob a little bit and use some like real world kind of work examples here to see if there's a comparison or link between the two. Like let's say you have like a big client presentation at Send Bars and you're working with Bob and Bob is [00:17:00] in charge of getting presentation materials, right?

But Bob is historically tardy and his research and prep work is historically always pretty lacking. You can't just yell at Bob like, you suck Bob. I'm gonna do this all by myself. Like, I'm just gonna carry you along. You've gotta figure out how to like calmly and assertively communicate with Bob and like motivate him to contribute to the team.

Sasha: Right? So like what is the big wall version of an office dynamic situation like that? I, I like that. I, and yeah, Bob always tardy.

Paddy: frigging Bob?

Sasha: Yeah, I would say that the, everyone wants to feel empowered and driven by like their own unique goal

Paddy: Mm.

Sasha: cross department wise. When you break it down to a company, you know you're gonna have different people who excel in different tasks. With a climbing partner, what's unique is like if you're going to try and send something, then you both individually want to show up and do your best on those [00:18:00] individual

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: The climb that I did in Madagascar I'll relate to too.

So I went with my friend Mango and we set the intention that we wanted to do this climb called Bravo LiFi. And it hadn't seen a full free ascent.

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: was a route that was developed by Lynn Hill and a team of women back in the late nineties. With Mango.

And I, we were like, had a bit more of the big wall climbing background, so I said to her, you know, for me sending it means sending every pitch in the end, like Mango on the second half was like, I actually feel more comfortable if you can take the lead on these pitches because I don't like the amount of run outs and I don't feel comfortable with it. The bottom line of communication is just like. Transparency to where you're at. And back to Bob. If Bob's like, Hey, I, I'm not a morning person. Like, I'm not gonna come to early morning meetings. It's like, maybe you're finding a middle ground

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: finding what motivates Bob to not be tardy, um, or feel

Paddy: Yeah. Yeah.

Sasha: [00:19:00] But the other thing is like if someone's gonna drop a ball, I would rather know that they're gonna drop a ball ahead of time and say like, Hey, I've got too much on my plate.

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: I can't do it.

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: And then I'll take it off their plate

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: than like, Hey, I had too much on my plate, so I didn't do it. And I think in climbing too, that's, that's a like a relatable aspect where it's like, I can't do this pitch. Can you take the lead on it?

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PADDYO VO:

More from climber Sasha DiGiulian after the break.

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Paddy: I believe all of us who spend time in the backcountry and extreme situations understand communication as being calmly, assertive, and also very honest and very vulnerable. Do you think because you spend so much time in these extreme situations on these very breathtaking, very scary looking walls, that you have better communication skills and better ways of navigating relationships off the wall, back in your quote [00:20:00] unquote real life?

Sasha: I think I'm definitely learning.

experienced this weird niche limelight since I was like an adolescent or like young teenager in my sport where I had my first endorsement deal when I was 12.

Paddy: Wow.

Sasha: then, got a lot of like, attention that I didn't know how to deal with.

And, I, I think that even like the way in which I communicated with myself around like finding comfort in who I was and then could take that and communicate it to an external world, like that's on the individual level, but I think that. The more comfortable you get with yourself and the more that you know yourself and your wants and needs, then the easier it is to navigate beyond yourself into relationships.

I would say climbing, but also just like life experience in general. And like we all have relationship or

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: that were like toxic, but you leave being like, wow, hindsight's 2020. What

Paddy: Yeah.

Yeah.

Sasha: know, you learn a lot from it [00:21:00] and you carry it forward. So I think that climbing's been one of those teachers in my life that's taught me how to cleanly communicate

But I've certainly had expeditions gone wrong where communication hasn't been really like well laid out and navigated and relationships have been fractured because of that.

You don't have hr. On your expeditions or afterwards. So how do you navigate these interpersonal conflicts during an expedition and then afterwards, is it like, you know, I'm gonna wash my hands of this person and this situation for the rest of time.

Paddy: Do you ever try to have like a postmortem and say like, Hey, like this is what I was thinking, I wanna like solve this situation. Like what were you thinking? Like, let me clean up my side of the street and try to meet you halfway.

Sasha: The first part of that is just like transparency and vulnerability. Like you have to be willing to go there. And if the other person isn't willing to go there too, then, then I think you get to the latter part of like, what does this [00:22:00] relationship mean to

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: sometimes it's easier to say like, Hey, agree to disagree and we're gonna walk our separate ways.

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: and I, I think that that happens in, in business too. You know, it's like sometimes you just don't see eye to eye and it's not gonna work. I would say that it's always ideal to be able to clean it up.

Paddy: Yeah. Yeah.

Sasha: you wanna see eye to eye. You wanna at least walk away recognizing that like something happened, but you can grow together stronger from

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: But I've also had the experience where like, the other person's not willing to meet you there, and like, you're like, hey, like you can only own your side

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: like show up as, as much as you can around the, like, the clarity of the communication and. Be like, I made this mistake and this mistake and

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: whatever it may

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: but I think that there's also like a really important aspect of like letting go. And when you've done all that you could do, and this ties back to [00:23:00] performance too, you know, like how much can you beat yourself up over something that you just couldn't do?

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: you can go back and do it, maybe you can't, but you always have to kind of learn what went wrong to move forward

Paddy: Well, it's interesting that for someone who, uh, spends so much time clinging to very small holds on very vertical walls, your big lesson here is sometimes you just gotta let go.

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Paddy: I don't want to be salacious or dramatic here, but are there any examples that you feel comfortable giving in these situations

Do you want to go there?

Sasha: Yeah. Yeah. I'm comfortable with it. I mean, one, the The most prominent example of this is actually featured in here to Climb, which is my dock on HBO,

Paddy: Right.

Sasha: led this all female expedition to this remote island off the coast of Africa. And we kind of had all of the ingredients to go and have like a really cool, adventurous trip, and ended up raining for like the entire time [00:24:00] that we were camped at the base of the wall.

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: the team got fractured. for me it was a really, big learning lesson around like letting go of what I wanna do and like recognizing that the people that I was with didn't wanna do the climb anymore. And I

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: on my end, I tried to push it to be like, Hey, let's like. Keep going.

And, and they're like, I'm not comfortable with the amount of exposure to rockfall and stuff like that. And I think that that's where the ego becomes like a really tricky thing too, because you go as a climber and you go on this big expedition and, and the success of it hinges on your performance and like

Paddy: Sure.

Sasha: back with like the summit

Paddy: Sure, sure. Yeah,

Sasha: And I hadn't yet learned that it was okay to like just come back and be like, yeah, we didn't do it.

Paddy: yeah,

Sasha: that's fine too because we all came back alive

Paddy: yeah, yeah,

Sasha: injuries happened. but in the aftermath of that, I would say that it was a little messy. It was like, don't know if everyone on [00:25:00] that trip was ready to like, confront everything that like went wrong and that we each individually learned from.

And so. I'm not friends, nor was I really friends with the people initially going, like, I, I kind of knew them,

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: tangentially through the industry and built this team that I thought would be really good.

Paddy: Yeah,

Sasha: like solid acquaintances. And I would say that that's more of where it's at now. Like, we're acquaintances.

We don't run in the same circles. And, the, um, feeling on my side of the street, I guess is like, I feel clean. I feel

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: done what I can to communicate, like my apologies and, and what I did wrong. And, um, in that specific case, like the individual specifically just isn't ready to go there.

And that's fine too. You know, I think that what's been tricky for me is like sometimes you just hold this like sensitivity around. Someone not liking you

Paddy: sure. Oh yeah.

Sasha: knows, like [00:26:00] I have plenty of people that I've never met that hate me. Um, you also have to

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: you know what? Like I can't control their opinions. Uh, you can just do your best. .

Uh, is it, is it difficult not continuing to hold a grudge hold resentment? I would say that moreover, like I learned a lot from the failed, uh, attempt of that

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: that led to a lot of like really important learning aspects to have successful trips from

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: So for that, like I'm really grateful for that experience as much as it was really hard. but yeah, I mean, I am human and there's probably some people that are totally bulletproof and not affected by other people's opinions, but I have to actively like really try

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: to stay, confident in my own space.

And I, I think that

Paddy: as, I guess I've gotten older and a little bit smarter, I've, I've learned to accrue.

Sasha: It's like the people I listen to. And then you have [00:27:00] to, you have to laugh at like, some of the stuff, you know, like some of the craziness that exists on the internet. You're

Paddy: Oh, oh, yes.

Sasha: can't, can't control that.

Paddy: is a cure all for many things. That is for sure.

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, Your successful attempt at the Platinum Wall brings together kind of all of the things that we're talking about in terms of athletic achievement, intellectual achievement, interpersonal, uh, relations, and absolutely just gutting something out in objectively awful situation.

you Had planned to do this thing in 15 or 16 days, but it takes 23 9 of which were spent in this tiny, Sopping wet portal, edge hanging 2,600 feet in the air, waiting out this incredibly intense storm.

I have so many questions about this. First, can you paint us a picture of just how teeny the portal edge was?

Sasha: Yeah, there's a couple really funny things talking about [00:28:00] laughter that I've seen on the internet related to this

Paddy: Yeah,

Sasha: like, first of all, like, why don't you check the weather forecast?

Paddy: Classic. Classic.

Sasha: like to set that record straight this is a climb that I was working on for. The last about three years, and it was kind of one of those like big scary, hairy, audacious goals that, brought me a lot of anxiety 'cause I just never really thought that I could actually do it. So by the time you're going for a push attempt, you know you're constantly looking at weather forecasts

Paddy: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Sasha: But the thing is, with a climb with our approach, like we are like, it's gonna take us 15 or 16 days, you're getting a solid weather forecast for like eight to 10 days at best.

Paddy: Right, right.

Sasha: we started this

Paddy: I.

Sasha: we were 10 days in, and by the eighth day we saw this weather forecast coming and it was like two days of rain. So we knew, okay, we're gonna have to like on our 10th day hunker down we are targeting that we would make it to our next base camp, which is at 2,600 feet, [00:29:00] 400 feet from the top. Um, and we had two portal ledges. So prior to that, the first. week plus, uh, my climbing partner Elliot and I were sharing a portal edge, which to your question is a four foot by six foot, essentially like a tent structure

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: made of dyma.

And its bottom is quite pulled tight, so it has like the firmness to sleep on. And then there's a rain shelter, which essentially a tent that sits

Paddy: Yeah,

Sasha: the port ledge to prevent, you know, rain from seeping in. So

Paddy: yeah.

Sasha: but vertical, pretty small.

Paddy: like a tent, but like a, like a off, like a awful, awful, awful tent.

Sasha: like a tiny tent.

Paddy: six five a deuce 50, like this sounds like a tent that I could wear as like a boutonniere, oh, there's rain coming. Better get in my tent and I just place it on my head a hilariously small tent.

Sasha: like a Gore-Tex sombrero.

Paddy: Yes, exactly.

Sasha: so by the time, basically the storm hit and we were 10 days into climbing the forecast just kept getting worse and worse. Like it [00:30:00] started as rain, and then there was like 50 mile per hour winds, which were pretty frightening because the poles were like bending in towards my chest and I was just like lying there, like if the, the poles were gonna snap.

Then the temps dropped,

Paddy: Oh my God.

Oh my God.

Sasha: icy, like the entire tent was encased in ice and there's thunder and lightning. And then as the temps warmed, ice trunks started falling all around us from the summit

Paddy: what I was mostly focused on was, being as warm and dry as possible.

Sasha: I would take my wet clothes, you know, wring it out and then like wrap it around my body. Um, because your bare body actually can help like emit, heat, so that can dry

Paddy: Yeah. Yeah.

Sasha: I'm not someone who likes to like, you know, just sit still and like, I've never been attracted to like a meditation retreat or something like that. So

Paddy: Yeah, you're like, I meditated for 30 seconds and now what do I do? I'm ready to go. Yeah.

Sasha: yeah. Like, I'd like to like do multiple things.

Paddy: [00:31:00] Yes.

Sasha: You're not like up there like sitting on Netflix, you know, like you,

Paddy: Yeah. You didn't, you didn't really like lug up a TV with you.

Sasha: That would be amazing. I mean, had I known the forecast?

Paddy: sure, sure,

Another funny thing was like, well, at least you'll be really well rested for the top. And I was like, man, it was so not restful.

Sasha: Like

Paddy: Oh, it doesn't sound restful at all.

Sasha: able to like, stretch out or we're rationing, like what our food was. We knew that we could get a resupply after the storm, but we didn't know when

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: that would be entirely.

We were eating breakfast was freeze dried, bars for lunch, was freeze dried food.

Paddy: Yeah,

Sasha: Had some Red Bull too.

I would like kind of push out when my dinner time would be, or like really build up excitement because

Paddy: yeah,

yeah.

Sasha: bottom of the bag of my freeze dried dinner, it was like kind of sad. 'cause that was

Paddy: Sure.

Sasha: excitement moments of my day.

The hardest part of my day was always around like. 2:00 PM because it'd be like, I've done the [00:32:00] morning thing, kind of had my lunch. Now the only thing I have in the future is like, it's going to get progressively colder and then there's dinner and then I have to like sleep, but I'm not so tired 'cause I've just kinda sat here all day. I was like, man, my body needs to like move.

The weather forecast got pretty grim. And then the, the biggest thing that was like really hard to stay positive around was the fact that the wall was just getting soaked and soaked and soaked and in climbing so much of what is guiding, like your ability to climb something, it's friction. And when rock is wet, it's slippery says the sign at every amusement park.

Paddy: According to science.

Sasha: So yeah, essentially the way that I saw it was like, here's this climb that I've been working on. Here I am three quarters the way through it,

Paddy: Yeah,

yeah.

Sasha: And I'm gonna sit here and wait this out to see if I can have an opportunity to try and

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: [00:33:00] because if it's one week, two weeks of my life that's all together, less time than waiting another year to come back and be in the same position.

But it was pretty funny because it was really loud outside with like the wind and the

Paddy: Oh, yeah.

Sasha: Elliot and I would be like, I'd be like, how you doing? And he'd be like, living the dream.

Paddy: Yeah. To,

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

how much of staying, or even just the, the idea of the climb in the first place is. Personal, like I've climbed sections of this before. I want to do the whole thing. It's a beautiful aesthetic climb on the most famous wall in all of the world. I love being here and I love climbing.

This is just what I love to do and how much of it is career achievement? Like I absolutely want to be the fourth person ever to do this, and first woman ever to do this.

Sasha: It was less about that, record on

Paddy: I.

Sasha: than it was like toggling [00:34:00] between going down at a weather window where it would be like lighter rain and less, full on storm and staying. there was actually a night where Elliot, we were about midway through the storm and Elliot and I were talking about it and he was like, you know, the wall's just gonna be wet after this.

Like, we should go down. we kind of made that soft plan. And then at night I had this dream that I like. Sincerely regretted it. And it was like the strangest thing. 'cause in my dream I got home and like all of the pain had left my body and

Paddy: Hmm.

Sasha: I was dry. I regretted it. Like I felt this visceral feeling of sadness

Paddy: Hmm.

Sasha: for leaving. And then I woke up that morning and I was like, Hey, this is gonna be crazy, Do you mind if we stay till Tuesday and just like see if after Tuesday the weather improves. And Elliot like, so many props to him.

I mean, he was like, talk about like what I learned from past trips and like finding a really great partner. He was like such an important [00:35:00] ingredient for like why we could do the climb together.

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: mind you, like he was not sending,

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: by the time we were passing the storm, like he had switched largely into this supportive role of like me sending it.

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: he was so psyched and like positive and not holding what I've experienced in the past with certain partners who've been like, of like have like this weird background of like a bit of jealousy over like me doing something and them not or

Paddy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sasha: of that. It was just like pure, positivity. And he was like, yeah, let's ride it out. After that dream,Tommy Caldwell sent me a text where I was like, talking to him about whether I should say or go, and it was on a thread with Tommy and Alex and Tommy said something really empowering that was like, just remember you're on a grand adventure

Paddy: Hmm.

Sasha: may regret is not giving it every bit of effort that you can.

And so I was [00:36:00] like, you know, Tommy's right, like, I'm in it. I may as well stay in it. The worst case scenario, like I don't do it, but like, what a life memory

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: Once the weather breaks. You have seven more very challenging pitches. You also have to deal with the fact that these things are now slicker than snot because they've been getting soaked by rain and snow and ice So what did it feel like to actually top out on this thing, to complete the climb?

And also like, what did it feel like to walk for the first time in 23 days?

Sasha: well, so when I first rounded the top. It was really emotional

elliot actually three pitches from the top had to leave. He

Paddy: Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sasha: Ryan Sheridan, who I'd actually spent a lot of time working on this climb with, came and belay me, which was also really special 'cause I got like two in one, like two awesome friends to be a part of this journey and climb it

Paddy: Yeah. Yeah.

Sasha: So he supported me and then Pablo was filming Christian Pond, was taking photos and like I crest over [00:37:00] the top and all of a sudden got some friends at the top. My husband hiked up to the top and I like,

Paddy: Hey, hey, everybody.

Sasha: like so weird

Paddy: I bet. I bet,

Sasha: here you are. and then I took a step and like it was the first time, you know, I took a step where like the consequences of me like dropping something wouldn't be like it falling thousands of

Paddy: right? Yeah. Yeah.

Sasha: And I just started laughing 'cause like my leg was like pretty, like, just wiggly. Like, it was like,

Paddy: Uh,

Sasha: We're on solid ground. And I also, I had been wearing my harness for like, the last three plus weeks, taking that off and like, not having something around my waist was really

Paddy: Oh, I bet

Sasha: All this gear hanging off of my harness for so long, I was like, well this is what it feels like to just be me. Um, then the, the deep irony was like, I got so sore from the hike down the next day.

'cause I hadn't hiked in so many days that, that

Paddy: I,

I got brand new legs. I don't know how to use them

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PASUE

you've called this the [00:38:00] hardest climb of your career, which considering your career is really saying something now that you've had some time from it and a little bit of distance from the accomplishment, has it come to mean anything more than, oh my God, that was so hard.

I'm so, uh, proud of myself. Kind of reaction? Does it represent something deeper now? Something heavier, even?

Sasha: Yeah, I, I would say that this climb was so deeply personal for me

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: challenging, mentally grueling, and something that didn't have any relief. On previous big walls that I've done, there's always been like a standout pitch. And normally my approach has been like, okay, this is the five 14 pitch. I'm gonna try and send that. And then when I send it, I'm gonna go from the ground and send it again. Like in this continuous push to do the climb. And, and that ability to do it has been, I've left the ground with like probably like an 80, 85% certainty that I'm gonna be able to do it.

Paddy: hmm.

Sasha: When I left the ground for this [00:39:00] climb, I was like, I don't know, maybe 15% chance, like I had

Paddy: Really?

Sasha: 25% of the climb.

Paddy: Wow.

Sasha: Prior, and so there was so much unknown. There was just so much hard technical climbing in front of us,

Paddy: mm-hmm.

Sasha: Capitan has a specific technique and style in climbing that is different from other walls that I've done. It was the first goal of my career that felt bigger than me. And I don't know why exactly, but I never, leading into the trip, didn't feel anxiety about it. My husband would be like, you're gonna do it this season. I would like kind of be like annoyed. 'cause I'd be like, you don't understand how hard it is for me.

I think that what I learned, that A, you never know until you try, but also like it's okay if your goal feels bigger than you and it like gives you anxiety and keeps you up and like feels so beyond the attainable. you break down the [00:40:00] process and you just give yourself the ability to be in it and be a part of the process and almost like give into it, you can really surprise yourself with what you're capable of

I'm just throwing myself at this thing that I don't know if I can do. Maybe it's all a waste of time, but I'm learning and becoming a better climber in the process.

you can have this really big goal and not totally know how you're gonna do it.

You don't start climbing something like platinum and be like, I can't wait to be at the top.

Paddy: Mm mm.

Sasha: Like, you're not thinking about the summit. And every day on the wall, s where I could get

Paddy: Yeah, totally.

Sasha: I sent this pitch, okay, I have two more really hard pitches to do today. And then the next day, like, okay, yesterday was great, but it doesn't matter.

All that matters is today and how I perform on these next pitches.

You, you need to kind of get granular to get to that overall end goal.

life can be [00:41:00] overwhelming, And like sometimes you just feel like you have too much on your plate or you dunno how to, you're gonna get something done in like a week. the way that I always see it is like, what can I do today? something that I struggle with a lot that I'm working on is like of closing the laptop or turning off the lights of the gym at the end of the day.

And maybe you didn't do everything that you had on the docket, but tried to do your best. finding solace in

Paddy: Yeah.

Sasha: It's a work in progress, but in the end of the day, all you can do is do your best. And

with platinum, that was how I saw it too. It was like, I don't know if I can do this, but I'm gonna give it my all and, and try.

Paddy: MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

so it is now time for the final ramble. One piece of gear you cannot live without.

Sasha: huh. My climbing shoes.

Paddy: That sounded like a question. I don't know. Are you asking me?

I dunno. I was gonna say maybe the portal ledge, but like, I, I, I don't know, did you burn that thing afterwards?[00:42:00]

Sasha: I'd say my, my climbing shoes.

Paddy: Okay.

Sasha: They're pretty important.

Paddy: I think so. Okay. Now I, I believe I know the answer to this already, but best outdoor snack,

Sasha: Well, gotta send it

Paddy: send bar as it is use send it at, checkout for 20% off your next send bar.

Sasha: Yeah,

Paddy: And what is your hottest outdoor hot take?

Sasha: Oh, hottest you, you mean like, what's the tea? Or,

Paddy: Which, yeah,

Sasha: carry out what you carry in is like a really important hot take. Like leave no trace.

Paddy: Oh, of course, of course, of course. Yeah. LNT thought you were talking like emotionally like as well, but maybe, maybe also

Sasha: maybe leave, leave the space as positive. Don't leave your, don't leave your trauma at the

Paddy: don't leave your emotional doggy bag at the crag.

Sasha: yeah, I think that my biggest hot take is like, it really bums me out when I see just like trash littered on the trail.

Paddy: yeah.

Sasha: so definitely [00:43:00] carry all your stuff out. And then I guess the, the second to that, to play off that emotional doggy bags, so to speak. It's just like, bring a good vibe, you

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Sasha: just be like a kind individual

Paddy: don't even think that's much of a hot, it's just, yeah. Don't be a dick. There it is. The big headline is Sasha says, don't be a dick.

Sasha: Quite precisely.

Paddy: Yeah.

 MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

PADDYO VO:

Sasha DiGiulian is a professional rock climber who has all sorts of medals and trophys from her competition days. Today, she focuses on big wall climbing and first ascents, of which she has maaaaany. Sasha's most recent feat was the first female ascent of the Platinum Route on Yosemite's famed 3000 foot wall, El Capitan. It took her 23 days to pull it off, 9 of which were spent rotting in a portaledge hanging 2600 feet in the air. Which is nightmare [00:44:00] fuel, but that is what Sasha loves. You can check out footage from the climb, and all sorts of other wild rock adventuring, on her Instagram at Sasha DiGiulian. And be sure to check out her superfoods snack business, Send Bars, at send bars dot com.

Also, remember we are on Youtube . So treat your eyes to the faces that make the sounds you enjoy so much. Check out video episodes of the podcast at Outside Podcast 1 on YouTube.

And, remember that we want to hear from you. Sooo, email your pod reactions, guest nominations, who you'd want to be marooned in a portaledge with and why, and whatever else you want to tell and/or ask us to Outside Podcast At Outside Inc Dot Com.

The Outside Podcast is hosted and produced by me, Paddy O'Connell. But you can call me PaddyO. The show is also produced by the [00:45:00] storytelling wizard, Micah "cha brah, I'm gonna send my proj, bruh" Abrams. Music and Sound Design by Robbie Carver. Booking and research by Jeanette Courts, with additional production support by Maren Larsen.

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