Raising Fearless Kids Who Won’t Give You a Heart Attack, with Jeremy Jones

Jeremy: we actually shot a film segment with TGR this year, and in doing so, we went back to some of my, like old classic Tahoe lines, in the last 10 years, certainly there's nobody I've snowboarded more with than my kids.

Um, so you, you know, I really develop like a trust and a bond and they're making great decision making. But then once you're up in critical terrain, it's deep snow. One bad call can erase a lifetime of good calls. That hit me like a ton of bricks. And one morning in particular, we went back to this line called Grizzly Spine.

Which I rode, like over 20 years ago. Hadn't been back since. I'm actually with Mike Hatchet and my kids, the guy who shot it when I rode it. And it was a funny slash terrifying experience where we come around the corner, the sun's not up yet, but we can see the line

Paddy: Uh huh.

Jeremy: everyone's stomach drops and hatchet.

And I look at each [00:01:00] other and we're like, that's not rideable. And, and you know, he agrees and da da da. It's like, yeah, that's definitely not in. And then my son pulls out this photo when I rode it, and he is like, it looks exactly like how you rode it.

Paddy: Oh my, I learned it from watching you, dad. Oh my God. Ugh.

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PADDYO VO:

Before the snow started falling this winter, my wife and I gave ourselves an early Christmas present: a kid-carrying ski chariot. It is without a doubt my favorite gear purchase of the last decade. Sure, it turns me into a draft animal that tows 50 pounds of sled  uphill, plus whatever my one-year-old daughter weighs this week. But, once I flip it around and point downhill, I’m transformed into a mythical skiing centaur, gracefully carving turns through all manner of conditions (as far as you know), while my daughter giggles and squeals with joy. It’s magical.

Long-time listeners of this podcast know that [00:02:00] skiing changed my life, and this contraption ensures that my little girl gets exposed to the mountains and the joy of snow sliding right from the start. The gifts skiing has given me—not just the joy, but the appreciation for wilderness, the determination and grit and feeling of accomplishment, the ability to talk to random strangers on chairlifts—as a parent, these are as important to instill in her as curiosity and kindness. But curiosity and kindness aren’t weather dependent.

Here in Colorado, we’ve had a brutal start to winter. Temps barely dipped below freezing for most of December, and we’ve gone on as many hikes as ski chariot rides. Uphilling with that thing recently, it was so warm that I didn’t need a jacket and you could have baked a frittata in my ski pants. The whole thing has me wondering how I can pass this passion on in a [00:03:00] warming world, and how far I'm willing to go to protect this thing I love for this person I love.

It turns out, one of the best people to ask this question happens to also be one of the greatest big mountain snowboarders of all time: Jeremy Jones.

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Jeremy is snow sport royalty. In the 90s, he and his brothers Steve and Todd founded Teton Gravity Research, which helped redefine ski and snowboard filmmaking. Todd starred in these films for over 20 years, greasing lines all over Wyoming’s Tetons, California’s Sierras, and Alaska’s Chugach mountains that other skiers and snowboarders didn’t even think were ridable. His riding evolved over time, and exploration—the kind that requires weeks in winter basecamps and human powered ascents—became as much a hallmark of Jeremy’s riding as his grace and courage.

If that was all he was ever known for, Jeremy would still be [00:04:00] a snowboarding legend. But in 2007, after wrestling with the gnawing realization that the snowsports community was not collectively contributing to the existential fight against Climate Change, he founded Protect Our Winters. In the two decades since, Jeremy’s spent as many days lobbying the federal government for effective climate policy as he’s spent shredding the mountains he’s trying to save. Seriously—Google “Jeremy Jones Capitol Hill” if you want to see lots of videos of him wearing a suit and testifying to Congress.

As impressive as all that is, perhaps more impressive is that, while all this was happening, Jeremy successfully raised a son and a daughter who have become his most reliable riding partners. He now finds himself in the amazing—and slightly uncomfortable—position of watching his own kids tackle those lines that other riders felt were impossible.

I could talk to Jeremy for hours about snowboarding or climate advocacy, but [00:05:00] it turns out that all of his insights and experiences in both those realms combine to make him an even more fascinating parent. After talking to him, I’m dragging my own kid through this very subpar winter with a completely different perspective, and I hope you will, too. Assuming you have a kid. Dragging someone else’s kid might be a little weird.

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First things first, burnt toast. your last humbling and or hilarious moment outside side?

Jeremy: I'm like pretty new to wing foiling and there's really no easy way to learn that.

Paddy: This is a, a foil attached to a surfboard, but you also have a kite pulling you along

Jeremy: yeah. Actually, it's super rudimentary. You like literally just hold a wing they call it, but it's like you hold a sheet and it, you know, from afar that's kind of what it looks like.

Paddy: It seems like this is just ripe for getting absolutely slammed to the water [00:06:00] often. Are you taking multiple slams learning this

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, there's no way to learn, without a lot of failure. And, um, I, I mean, just getting to the point where you figure out how to get enough power to get to your feet and then once you are, say on your feet and then you get lifted onto foil and then you gotta learn how to foil on the fly is how I learned and I learned.

At Donner Lake where you get these pretty dramatic gusts that come and you can see 'em coming across the water and you have like no energy and then all of a sudden a shit ton of energy. So you, you learn through crashing a ton and you feel like you're going a hundred miles an hour and 10 feet off the water, but you're really going five miles an hour, two feet off the water, and you're crashing into water. As long as you don't get hit by the foil, it's, it's quite low impact, but there's also lots of opportunity for failure,

Paddy: on a scale of one to 10, how cool do you think that you look while you're learning to do [00:07:00] this?

Jeremy: you definitely at one and I don't care how good of an athlete, you know, how good of a surfer, snowboarder, skier, what have you. Like, nobody walks in and just does this.

Paddy: Yeah.

Jeremy: and so it's almost like the, the really good athletes have a harder time because they're used to people saying what I just said and then getting it right away.

And then you'll see the 50-year-old mom walk out and is like prepared for a long journey and embraces the journey and has this way smoother learning curve of,

Paddy: So you're saying there's a chance we got a chance to look cool.

Jeremy: I don't know if you ever look cool, but it sure as hell feels

Paddy: cool. Yeah, yeah,

all right, let's get into this.

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here's a little fun fact to start things off. You went to high school for a few months with our producer, dear Sweet Micah Abrams. So we have to know. how much of an impact did that have on your riding style? How much did Micah influence the [00:08:00] trajectory of your professional career?

And is it true that Micah used to beat Bode Miller in ski races?

Jeremy: So yeah, it's true that I went to school with Micah for a couple years. I mean, I fell in love with snowboarding right away, so I was probably down this path. But watching Micah Ski definitely just instilled in this deep drive to not be a skier. Just joking, Micah. Uh, no Micah actually. no, we had some awesome times together.

But what is true is, that Micah, uh, certainly beat Bode Miller in races

Paddy: Seriously? '

Jeremy: cause the reality is, is Bode was unruly uncoachable, and by no means was the fastest. 14-year-old kid at the school, and he really just popped out of nowhere, like starting at 17

Paddy: at this point in high school, did Micah have his dreadlocks or was did that [00:09:00] come in college? Only because I,

have seen photos

of a

Jeremy: dreadlock free in high school that was not the Micah. I knew that was gonna grow dreadlocks. So I don't know what happened in college. Uh, but something changed him.

Paddy: He showed up at Colorado, I think is, is what happened

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Not long after you graduated from high school and left Micah behind, you began to star in snowboard films. You have now starred in, I believe, several billion snowboard films, but at the beginning of your career, you were known as, you know, the dude who throws down insane lines in the Jackson and Alaska backcountry.

And then at some point in the early 2010s, you evolved from that guy to a guy who puts as much into exploration as you put into your riding.

Now we know your resume, but was there one specific moment or a series of moments that really inspired that evolution?

Jeremy: Um, I think it was pretty steady trend in the sense of, [00:10:00] even like back east before I even went out west, uh, you know, the goal was to get west and to go and find the best mountains, ride 'em in the best conditions, and kind of emulate what I was seeing. Free riding in the movies. And then for sure when, um, I was 19, I went up to Alaska, camped up on Thompson Pass, and from the first run to the last run, I was like, oh my God, this is where I need to be.

But definitively the last, um, run of that trip, I rode this peak meteorite with my brothers.

And, I just remember at the end of that thinking, there is no way I'm not gonna be here every spring. and I did that for 25 years straight, uh, and really just put all my focus into Alaska. And I think the drive was one.

I'd go to different places and, and you have, as a pro rider, you have travel budget and, um, I would spend it and go to BC in January or [00:11:00] February and then it hit me really quick. I'm like, everywhere we're going, we're looking for Alaska. So I just ended up, I would stay, uh, kind of between the Tetons and the Sierra and not spend money and then spend it all in the spring up in Alaska.

with the goal of, always trying to find that next dream line,

Paddy: Well, what was the dreamy bit about it? Was it the steepness? Was it the exposure? Was it just how grand and expansive the ranges in Alaska are?

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, Alaska is a fantasy land for steep riding. You have this, um, coastal snow pack that allows you to ride these really crazy, steep lines in powder, which, especially back then, that was unheard of. For example, if you think about what's going on in the Tetons right now, in February, sunny high pressure, there are Teton chargers going and riding pow off the highest peaks.

Prior to that, it was like, no, we only do that when stuff settles. And when you don't ride big steep [00:12:00] lines in, powder, unless it's at a resort. Alaska, uh, really opened that up. So you could do things on a snowboard there that you only dreamed of other places, just 'cause the nature of the terrain allowed.

It. It was like we found this surf break where we'd been surfing, you know, uh, head high beach break and then all of a sudden it's triple overhead and, you know, 800 yard barreling waves It was also seemingly endless. but after, you know, spending six to eight weeks a year up there, I realized probably a decade in, I'm like, we're actually super limited on where we can ride because you can only take a helicopter to so many places.

And if I can figure out how to go beyond the heli boundaries, I have 95% more mountains to choose from. And at the heart of my free riding is, like I said, it's always been, go find the best faces in the world. These faces so incredible, you could never even imagine 'em. [00:13:00] And then put in the time and try to ride them on the perfect day with the perfect and, and honor that opportunity with the perfect line.

Paddy: Well, it sounds like Alaska really inspired this like, uh, sense of exploration in you and that kept you coming back. And so from an exploration standpoint, when was the first time you felt out of your depth where you realized that you were now on a different kind of cutting edge where you felt like you were presented with a risk versus reward dilemma that felt unique or new to you?

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean with the helicopter I was getting, what I felt was that for a while,

but once I got on that first, uh, Alaska plane, drop foot power trip, it happened the first night I was there where so. I'm staying at the same hotel that I'd stay in all the time. TGR, my, he, you know, the crew that I'd built my career around was staying there using helicopters.

And it was finally this beautiful sunny day. And [00:14:00] I'm watching the, you know, my previous crew of the last decade go and, you know, leave the hotel and start riding and, and we go, we get our stuff together, get in the plane, and we're actually flying through the heli zone.

And I'm looking at their tracks. They're on their third run. I'm in my head. I'm like, oh, I'd be, I would've went here, here, here right now. And I'm in the plane. I'm like, man, it's gonna be, we don't even really know where we're going and it's gonna take so long before I'm even strapping into a snowboarding, riding down and had all this anxiety.

And then we. Punch through past the heli boundary, which is really only about 10 minutes in a fixed wing plane, fly 50 more minutes deeper into the Fairweather range. And as soon as we pass that heli boundary, I'm like terrified. But I, I knew this is where I belong. And especially when we landed and, and that night I, with Jonathan Moore, we hiked up to this saddle and could see our camp down there and we're just like, this is it.

This is where we belong.

Paddy: Did it feel [00:15:00] like you were like really, truly out there? I mean, did it feel like you were like on Mars, basically?

Jeremy: Yeah, we definitely felt like we were on Mars as far as like getting as far away from, civilization in North America, stacked with mountains. We were about as far as you can get out in, in the mountains

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Paddy: being impressive in. Snow seems to be a familial trait. You know, you and your brothers very famously, , are powder hounds, but also your kids are now very serious riders as well, and you've taught them so well that they're taking on not only the kind of heart stopping lines that you're famous for, but in some instances the actual same lines that made you famous.

So as a snowboarder, I have to believe that you're looking at your kids like arcing through pinner shoots, balancing on near vertical spines, stomping huge cliff drops, and thinking like, [00:16:00] hell yeah. This is so cool. And then at the same time as their dad, I feel like you've got to be thinking, oh dear, sweet lord, no.

What have I done? I've created a monster. Do you ever kick yourself for coaching your kids too? Well. Is it hard to watch them

Jeremy: Yeah. Um, so we actually shot a film segment with TGR this year, and in doing so, we went back to some of my, like old classic Tahoe lines, and it really came out of nowhere. Like I'd never had that feeling. Um, I've just, I've grown up, I've ridden, I mean, in the last 10 years, certainly there's nobody I've snowboarded more with than my kids.

Um, so you, you know, I really develop like a trust and a bond and they're making great decision making. But then once you're up in critical terrain, it's deep snow. One bad call can erase a lifetime of good calls. [00:17:00] That hit me like a ton of bricks. And one morning in particular, we went back to this line called Grizzly Spine.

Which I rode, like over 20 years ago. Hadn't been back since. I'm actually with Mike Hatchet and my kids, the guy who shot it when I rode it. And it was a funny slash terrifying experience where we come around the corner, the sun's not up yet, but we can see the line

Paddy: Uh huh.

Jeremy: everyone's stomach drops and hatchet.

And I look at each other and we're like, that's not rideable. And, and you know, he agrees and da da da. It's like, yeah, that's definitely not in. And then my son pulls out this photo when I rode it, and he is like, it looks exactly like how you rode it.

Paddy: Oh my, I learned it from watching you, dad. Oh my God. Ugh.

Jeremy: Yeah. So then I go, and in my head I'm like, what idiot would freaking put their life on their line to go ride this like edge of the world spine? I'm like, man, if his mother was here right now, she'd be like, you guy, [00:18:00] there is no way in hell my son is going up there to go snowboard

Paddy: yeah, yeah, yeah,

Jeremy: the, like, we no chance.

so language is super important in the mountains. I'm like, all right, well let's. Go take a look at it. so we climbed the line, uh, right next to it and I'm on the top and you can't see anything. It's, and it's wild. It brought back all these memories, the exact tree where I started, like it was so vivid and like going warp speed back in time.

And, um, and I'm just, I'm watching my kid and going, is he only riding this? 'cause he thinks this is his one shot to make it or what have you. and I'm feeling like he's in the right head space and I'm like, all right. Have at it. And it was so terrifying. I wanted to stay on top of him so I couldn't see him ride it.

Um, and 'cause I really wanted to

Paddy: you wanted to be next to him

Jeremy: back out at any time. I wanted to watch and make sure is he was in, in the right space. And, and he goes over the [00:19:00] edge and I'm like, dude, the next 15 seconds is gonna determine a lot. And it's just pure silence and it feels like it goes on forever.

Paddy: Oh my God.

Jeremy: And then the valley and the radios just erupt with, oh my god, you know, screaming.

Um, and the little shit. Uh, not only did he ride it, he rode it better than I wrote it. Um.

Paddy: My god.,

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Well, standing atop that line with your son, I have to imagine presents like a parenting dilemma that is unique and, as a new dad myself. And, uh, also a skier. I am trying to put myself into that moment, and I, I want you to explain it a little more for me. A few months back, I spoke with Kimmy Fasani about how her experiences on Mountain have influenced how she parents and she had this really great line about wanting to shield her kids from [00:20:00] instilling her fear into them.

So she tries to ask them what they think will happen or how they're feeling in terms of safety, rather than saying something like, okay, be careful, be careful, be careful. I think it's really great advice. It's really hard to put into practice. I have found, and also her kids are really young and your kids are not very young, and they're quite literally, like in this moment, following your exact tracks in incredible jaw dropping and wild snowboarding.

So explain that moment to me and like, does your parenting at home look different than your rad dad-ing in the backcountry?

Jeremy: It's such a part of our. Life that I, I think that their similarities run thick. I think it's, um, and I just say this as you, you know, with younger kids just starting down this journey, one thing that is um, kind of took me by surprise is once , they find that love of the mountains and then you're [00:21:00] spending, like I said earlier, I'm, you know, I've snowboarded more with my kids than anyone else in the world the last 20 years. And that's 'cause I've made a point to be around and it showed me this whole different, new level of love and, Joy and respect and how rad skiing and snowboarding is. 'cause when you get on the mountain, you're now partners out there. The the parent kid line, goes away and, it's like I was there for their very first time. They jumped to cat track, to the very first cliff, to the very first this, and it's this, you know, long slow progression that gets you to these now kind of high end world class lines that the kids are starting to dabble with now.

And so it's a pretty natural evolution.

Paddy: Were your kids natural risk takers when they were little, or did they grow into that maybe from watching Dad?

Jeremy: Um, I mean, My kids are good athletes but no, they've never been stupid [00:22:00] risk takers. And they aren't on the mountains. Like, it wasn't like they hot tubbing airs, you know, from the beginning. It's like. You know, you gotta land everything. Oh, you, yeah, you hit the big air, but you're flappy in the air.

You gotta be clean, you gotta, you know, when you land, make a tow turn, don't do a heel chatter out. And just all this very natural stuff where it's almost like the mountains are soccer field. I have seen parents screw up the mountain situation. 'cause it's your life's focused around the mountains. Mine is, we've shaped our life around it. So of course all we want is to be out there with our kids

Paddy: A hundred percent.

Jeremy: you can screw it up. So easy. And my rule, and, and, and not that this has to be it, but, our thing was if we're gonna the mountains.

We're taking three runs and you can have a cookie, you wanna bail after three runs, we can bail after three runs, and then a powder day would come and I'm like, Hey, tomorrow's gonna be a good day. We can all go. but if you don't want to go, I'm totally down with getting you a babysitter. And you're, it's totally fine if you stay [00:23:00] home, but like tomorrow's, we're on, I'm on the mountain.

Paddy: Well that leads very naturally into my next question because my daughter is about to be one. And if you can keep a secret, Santi Claus is bringing her, her very first pair of skis this Christmas, and I'm so fricking excited about this. About teaching her to ski, exposing her to this passion and lifestyle that really like, has absolutely changed the course and trajectory of my life.

I'm also keenly aware that, like you've said, this is my thing and doesn't necessarily have to be her thing, do you have any advice for me or for parents listening who wanna raise little ski bums but also don't wanna like spoil it by pushing too hard?

Jeremy: Yeah, so, in the big mountains, like terrain progression is key. So I think early on, a lot of just going to the sled hill and you know, you bring the skis, you bring the toboggan, you bring everything you find places, um, at the base of the mountain. So for example, if you [00:24:00] go from the tram at Jackson Hole towards the mange moose, you have a hundred yard, two degree slope that you can release a 1-year-old down and they're gonna go down that thing going dead straight at like three miles an hour.

You know, sure, maybe you go and you bring them up the mountain for a run here or there, but like, inevitably, it will often turn into where it'll be at the base of the mountain and then they find a pile of snow and they're sledding off the snowhill.

So it's like finding love of being in the snow,

Paddy: Yes. Yeah,

Jeremy: is the first critical element. And then just keeping it fun

Paddy: I mean, yeah, I think we're gonna, you know, like I've been told to like, just keep the skis out, like in the

living room next to the Legos and the blocks and stuff like that. And then just like, always have a, you know, pocket full of cookies and

starburst

Jeremy: that's the other thing is be very strict about, um, candy and, and sugar until you're in the mountains and then just hand it out like it's like oxygen.

Paddy: We can't, we can't [00:25:00] have cookies. We're not in the trees right now.

Jeremy: Yeah.

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Paddy: I've been told that the goal of parenting is to raise independent, free thinking, strong, empowered kids. then the hardest part of parenting is when you actually pull that off and these independent little humans become big, independent humans and they up and leave your home, thus fulfilling your dreams while simultaneously breaking your damn heart. Your daughter just left for college. Your son is not too far behind. Has this been a difficult transition period for you?

Jeremy: No, um, I mean,

Paddy: are you going on more dates with your wife? Is that what, is that what it

Jeremy: well you, yeah, that, um, ba I'm like 50 going on 21 now. 'cause I'm about to be um, not be tied to school schedules and yada yada yada. Um, so that is quite freeing. [00:26:00] I sure as hell know how to fill up, you know, the, the added new time I have.

Paddy: sure, sure.

Jeremy: but at the heart of it is, is you're, you know, I'm looking at my daughter going, yeah, it is time for you to get out of this house.

Get out of this town. Not in a negative way, but

Paddy: no, no.

Jeremy: you are so ready. Like go see the world. And they're just so, um, they're equipped, they're competent and it's so cool to see them and then visit 'em and in their new world and like watch them turn into adults.

Paddy: I've heard that as a parent, 90% of the time you spend with your children is all before they're 18 years old. Is this a sad thing for you, or has it made your time with them more precious or even more meaningful? I,

Jeremy: Yeah, I actually made the short film Twilight of Adolescence that starts with that quote.

Paddy: yeah.

Jeremy: and

Paddy: an adorable and lovely film, by the way.

Jeremy: Thank you. Yeah. I [00:27:00] mean, as, as your daughter gets older, watch that. Bring the Kleenex box and watch,

Paddy: Oh, I was like, get, I was like, I gotta pause this. You know?

Jeremy: it was funny, when I first showed the film, I'm in the back of the theater looking out at the audience, and like halfway through I look out and all, like, there's all the guys and slash dads in particular are like, they're crying.

I'm, and I never, I'm like, holy shit, I made a tear jerker. But, um, but no, it shows you kids, I don't know, like you can go 10 years without seeing your buddy and it feels like it was yesterday, 10 years with a kid is like this huge transformation. And then, It was funny when they were younger, it wasn't that hard for me to go and go on an expedition for three weeks and come back and I always said, well, I, in the 12 month year, I'm around a ton.

I take these big chunks of time and I'm gone. But once they were kind of middle school and through high school, I really, cut down on travel. [00:28:00] 'cause I just felt like the clock was ticking. They're competent, they're like ultimate play partners and slowed things down. Um, and made sure I was really around for that period.

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You have spent, will continue to spend tons of time in the back country with your kids climbing big peaks, snowboarding down, sometimes dreamy powder filled lines, sometimes sketchy looking couloirs with hard pack ice from hell. Traveling with your kids through avalanche terrain. Feels to me like a pretty good metaphor for dad-ing. As a parent. What scares you? Not just in terms of snowboarding, but just across the board.

Jeremy: Yeah. I mean, as a parent, just something happening to your kids, whether it's in the mountains and life and I think it's that, um, natural tendency to want to protect 'em and have them succeed and I think it's hard to, not. Maybe be overprotective and like give them the wings to fly.

and with [00:29:00] that they're gonna crash. And, and that's how you learn is crashing. And then it's, you know, what's the right amount of crashing. And ideally it's a lot of crashes that are small crashes, uh, that are survivable and just being there for 'em when, you know, just on standby. I mean, parenting as they get older is, is like you're just on super standby.

Paddy: Yeah. I mean, I feel like it, I, I haven't traveled into backcountry, uh, avalanche terrain yet. I've been in the woods, especially snowy woods with my, little wee baby plenty of times, uh, right now. But it's even, it's just like, you know, watching her like learn how to crawl off of the couch. Right. And I'm there kind of just like spotting her as I would, uh, like a boulderer.

Right. You know, and I'm like, this is so cool. Also, like, if you like, take a header and hit the coffee table, I'm never going to forgive myself, you know? But what, what I do know is that I feel like. My job is not to make sure that my [00:30:00] daughter has calm waters throughout her life. My job is to help her build a badass boat. Do you feel like that's the approach that you've taken with your kids?

Jeremy: Yeah, that's a great, metaphor. I. I hope I have. Yeah. And I, and again, yeah, I guess going back to your daughter, like, as she's moving around the living room. Yeah. Let her take the falls, but maybe make sure she doesn't like, head her into the corner of the coffee table or

Paddy: Exact. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's,

Jeremy: That's kind of how I have dealt with, acceptable falls.

And then get, and they know when like, whoa, dad is really serious right now. I better

Paddy: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy: listen.

Or just in the mountains, like do not do, like, if I start getting serious, um, they're listening 'cause I'm Okay. With like, oh, they blow that landing. They're just gonna cartwheel down this chute. And sure they're gonna go 600 feet, but they're not gonna hit anything, [00:31:00] so who cares?

And someone from the side might be like, oh my God, I watched a kid hit this cliff and cartwheel down this chute. And I'm like, yeah. It was kind of that. That's how they learn and

Paddy: Oh my God, dude,

MUSIC FOR A BEAT

PADDYO VO:

More from legendary snowboarder and founder of Protect Our Winters, Jeremy Jones, after the break.

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Paddy: Most folks know that you founded Protect our Winters in, 2007. That was right around when your daughter was born. Am I correct?

Jeremy: yes.

Paddy: Okay, so I have to believe that a big part of POW and your climate advocacy is not just about protecting the mountains that you love, but also making sure the same lines you've ridden are still snow filled for your kids, your grandkids and beyond.

Am I right?

Jeremy: I mean, at the root of it was I started seeing changes to the mountains. The scientists started becoming more and more vocal about the path we were on and that these changes are happening and they're gonna continue to happen.

And as someone whose [00:32:00] life revolves around winter, I didn't like that. And I felt like, , you know, us as a skiers, snowboarder, as an industry, uh, there's this obvious threat to our livelihood and our industry and the stuff that we've shaped our life around. And we should probably do something, to ensure the long-term health of .

You know, this sport and lifestyle and communities and jobs and so reluctantly I ended up starting protect our winters. Early on, I just wanted to send a check to someone doing the work and.

Paddy: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy: You know, surf rider or something as a lifelong surfer I'd, been supporting them and you know, ended up, I knew someone that had had some ties with Surf Rider.

I'm like, Hey, where's like the snow version, a surf rider and where do I send my check? ' cause at that point I had my name on a lot of different products and was getting royalties and that's when they came back and said, , there's really, your industry is doing nothing and you should probably start something.

And [00:33:00] that was the last thing I wanted to do. And I tried to ignore, and I did ignore that for over a year.

Paddy: Was it just eating at

Jeremy: I was like, fuck, they're right. This needs to happen.

Paddy: Most people, right? Anybody, myself, right? Like, I, I would be like, I, I still just wanna send the, the check to somebody.

Because I just, I don't have the time. I don't have the desire, I don't want to put up with, the bs like, so what's the secret sauce there?

Or the impulse that really just got like cranked two 11 that kind of forced you into this?

Jeremy: Yeah, at the heart of it, I just was like, we need to do something. What got me over the hump was I wrote in a notebook together we can protect our winters.

And I was like, you know what? I know I can come up with a logo, I can get a website. I can. Kind of plant the seed and then go around and try to get a bunch of people and companies and riders and scientists and be like, Hey, come water this seed with [00:34:00] me and let's grow this thing.

And that's really been the, uh, spirit from the beginning for me. , I've never been paid by protect our winters, donate to protect our winters. And it's really because the community has surrounded this and rallied around it.

The protector winters is alive and doing what it does today.

Paddy: Well, let's talk community, because for the last two decades you've been saying that climate change doesn't care about what your political party is. You know that bipartisanship is the only path forward. But right now in our nation, our extended community, it feels like a deeply, deeply polarized time and a flashpoint in our nation. Have you felt like appealing to both sides of the aisle has become more difficult over your 20 years of advocacy?

Jeremy: the reality is when we started, um, working on climate and protect our winters, it was not a political issue. Um, and it's not by chance that it became a political issue. Um, the fossil [00:35:00] fuel industry worked hard to, you know, link it in with identity politics along the lines of, of guns and other things.

And, that's been the single biggest. Hang up for us. And, and I don't, you know, I don't wanna go down the political rabbit hole too much, but it's like, Yankees versus Red Sox or what ha you know, red Team versus Blue team. And, and that has made it the biggest challenge. Early on it became really quick, the scientists, you know, from the get go.

I'm like, I just reach out to scientists. They said yes, they, and they have guided, our focus of like how we set our compass at protect our winters. And the very first like. Commercial I put in front of snowboarding ski movies was about light bulbs and water bottles. And the scientists are like, dude, that, that's all nice And that's a good thing to do, but that is not gonna get us the CO2 reduction that we need.

And to do that, we need policy. And to pass that policy, we need [00:36:00] climate champions in office to pass that policy. We had a climate champion, you know, majority. Two elections ago, we pa passed the Inflation reduction Act, the biggest climate policy ever passed.

It re led to, all sorts of jobs and manufacturing and, and, got us on this really accelerated path in the right direction. This last election. we lost that and it really comes down to, uh, if we had had a couple thousand more, votes for climate champions in three or four congressional districts, we would've been able to hold the line on climate policy.

The reality is, is the, the, you know, the entrenched dark red Republican party is really clear on their stance. You know, every single one of 'em takes fossil fuel money, especially if you're in a tight election, they're gonna get a lot of fossil fuel money.

The Republican party is lobbying our arm for the fossil fuel industry today. and [00:37:00] so when we say, um, you know, we're bipartisan, our hope is to get these moderate or middle, independent, middle of the road outdoor lovers. And a lot of them traditionally don't vote.

The did not vote. Parties still the biggest party in America. So it's really getting after those people.

Paddy: Has any part of your life outdoors made this incredibly difficult work any easier? Is there a lesson or a characteristic from snowboarding that you apply to advocacy?

Jeremy: the outdoors is really my, . Power center. It's such a part of my life and soul, it energizes me to do the work. and to ignore the critics. I know, the work that we're doing is critical. I, I think the odds of us or me looking back in 20 years and being like, man, you, you took climate change too serious.

You should have like, [00:38:00] mellowed out on that, um, are so slim.

And then the other thing that really, fuels me is My whole life, I am a product of the outdoor community slash industry supporting me. Whether it's showing up to my movies, buying my books, buying my products like I am made from the outdoor industry.

They have put me in this spot. And for me to not use that, position that I'm in, to fight for the long-term health of it just seems like it's a disservice. It seems like I'm now just plundering the outdoor industry instead of trying to make it better.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Skateboarding was my first like, kind of counterculture sport that I love, you know, fell in love with and, you know, when you're skateboarding on Cape Cod behind the bank, immediately you're getting yelled at by middle aged white males.

And then when I switched over and traded in my skis for snowboards, I'm [00:39:00] on the mountain and guess who I'm getting yelled at? Middle aged white males. And now I'm working on clean air, clean water. And if you go to my Instagram feed, guess who's yelling at me? Middle aged white males. That, that poor group of, you know, that the world has been so harsh

Paddy: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy: that middle aged white male American, that thinks that I'm the devil because I wanna try to make a habitable planet for future generations.

I am really comfortable at getting yelled at by that, sector of society.

Paddy: a long storied history of giving the middle finger to the system and, sticking it to the man.

Jeremy: yeah, I, I think I was throwing more middle fingers when I was a teenager and, um, so I, I'm more on the ignoring side of things, but, um, I say that because we as a [00:40:00] community, I think that we aren't vocal enough. We see it firsthand you know, we have some incredible rockstar athletes and, and some brands that, uh, have made pow what it is today.

But it's amazing how many, people stay away 'cause they're afraid of getting yelled at by middle aged white males.

Paddy: Yeah, totally.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

What do you think has taught you more useful skills or lessons? Your time in the outdoors or your time as an activist?

Jeremy: It. That's an interesting question. I think that the, um, there is a lot of perspective and wisdom. Uh, wisdom sounds maybe too big of a word, but yeah. Perspective that I gain in the mountains, uh, is where I really work out all my thoughts. I'm sure it's similar for you. Like you, you maybe got some tough life decisions going on and then you could even just go for a walk or a run and it's all of a sudden everything just like falls into place and you're like, boom, I'm good.

Um, so yeah, the mountains are my power center for sure, and that's where [00:41:00] I get my perspective and wisdom.

The reality is, is the climate work is really hard. We're pushing rocks uphill. We have very few wins. We're currently in a brutal, environment for, you know, meaningful CO2 reducing policy right now.

And without the outdoors, I think I would just be completely unglued. So, yeah, it's a critical part of mylife

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: Something that I struggle with is that I feel like a politically minded person and an advocate. I feel like a very engaged voter. It is also true that every single election since I was 18 years old has been branded the most important election of your lifetime. Words matter. Words matter a lot to me. So if everything is an emergency, nothing is an emergency, and that has bled into like this very visceral, even like physical repulsion from politics right [00:42:00] now when the news cycle is chaotic and polarizing. Increasingly awful, but I'm just like a normal guy. I am not on Capitol Hill. How do you fight off not just apathy, but exhaustion?

Jeremy: Yeah. So action for one. but the main thing is, is like we don't need to know every frigging comment that was made today from a politician that is ridiculous. So you know, our Super Bowl that we build for is. November 4th comes around every two years. it's action, over apathy. I'm grinding out right now.

Like, how do we need to show up, to have success on that day? What stories do we need to tell? cause at the end of the day, it is a marketing issue. And the fossil fuel industry is funding much better storytelling than we are. And we're not telling stories that we, we can't get to the people we need to, to get [00:43:00] them to either a, come out and vote or, or come out and understand the consequences of their votes.

There is plenty of room for optimism, especially what's going ar going on around the world without the us we see countries, I mean Spain, uh, I think it was a month ago, got a hundred percent of their energy from clean energy from wind and solar, primarily solar, a lot of it rooftop solar.

Uh, so these like kind of pie in the sky solutions that we would talk about 20 years ago are here today. The world is embracing 'em, the US is, you know, kind of digging their heels in and trying to, you know, hold on to old technology. But, um, you know, we have the solutions. They create a ton of jobs and, and so that's where optimism.

Comes from,

Paddy: do you feel hopeful? Do you feel optimistic?

Jeremy: Hope is like a pretty shallow world or, or word, you know, it's like, oh, I hope I can climb that mountain. It's more, all [00:44:00] right, what's the step I need to take today and what's the step I gotta take tomorrow and the next day and the next day? And what's our plan to climb that mountain?

What's the pace we need to climb that mountain? Where do we need to be at certain times to climb that mountain? Do we have to change our course to get to the summit? Do we gotta go down to go up? What? You know? And so I, again, it goes back to like action over apathy. so I'm looking at what that next step is and linking all those steps to, you know, link pitches that then link pitches, link to summits.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: I've asked this question of other folks who've been on the show who pull from their experience outdoors to use in the trenches of politics and activism. Given your expertise in climate advocacy, your life as a snowboarder, your work with POW, do you have a message for America right now?

Jeremy: I mean, My message for America in general is like, have intention with where you put your [00:45:00] attention,

Paddy: Mm.

Jeremy: meaning like stop the scroll, go towards the experts, not the influencers. And You know, for me the morning's an important thing is like winning the morning, win the day.

And, um, you know, making sure you are getting outside and be, you know, grounded and, and like the opposite of calm and grounded is scrolling a hate feed or, or watching, you know, hate news on tv.

Paddy: Yeah, no

Jeremy: And you do not need to know everything.

Paddy: We don't need to know everyone's opinion on every fricking thing. So it, it, I mean, it seems like you're saying get offline, get outside, get to work.

Jeremy: I like that dude. Thank you for you. You're my copywriter. I'm gonna write that down.

Paddy: I'll send you an invoice

Jeremy: We could have said, we should just put that at the beginning and be like, well, you know, if you wanna listen to the rest, you can. But this is

Paddy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeremy: of it.

Paddy: There is the [00:46:00] gist. Yeah. There you go.

MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT,

so it is now time for the final ramble. One piece of gear that you cannot live without.

Jeremy: I mean, I would say my snowboard,

Paddy: Which one? Your first snowboard ever? Like a snufer or like the snowboard that is currently sitting in your garage?

Jeremy: I'm not picky with the snowboards, just

Paddy: Just as long as you could slide downhill. Yeah.

yeah, yeah. Best outdoor snack.

Jeremy: I do custom trail mix and I will have like a salty, a bag of salty trail mix and a bag of sweet trail mix

Paddy: Like you, make your own trail mix.

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, it's not that deep in the sense of like, yeah, like a lot of snack containers

Paddy: Yeah.

Jeremy: let's throw some pretzels in there and some this and that, and then like, oh, I need a little bit of chocolate or cocoa, whatever. Yeah. So

Paddy: Are we gonna be seeing Jeremy Jones' Gorp, uh, like hitting, stands in Whole Foods anytime soon.

Jeremy: Yeah. Will not, 'cause I [00:47:00] actually, I, there's share, trail mix. Um, I don't know if you've seen that company, but it's, that's like the, the really

Paddy: the go-to. Okay.

Jeremy: the top if you're going off the shelf, best ingredients, best mix

Paddy: Okay. Copy that. I dig it. What is your hottest outdoor hot take?

Jeremy: hottest outdoor hot take. So give me, what's your hottest outdoor hot take?

Paddy: I, I've, I've used this a lot to explain to people, but I do believe that it is true powder day lift lines are not to be complained about, but to be enjoyed because nothing really beats that communal excitement feeling. There's a hundred plus people, 200 people at the base of a lift. And you watch like one person come down, like gut the lift line and everybody's like, yeah, powder day lift lines. Are awesome.

Jeremy: I love that. My hot take is, um, sticking with the, the lift line. [00:48:00] Theme is, um, these, you know, so-called shitty conditions at the mountain

Paddy: Hmm.

Jeremy: are really, you could argue those are the real epic days. It's raining out or it, maybe it's been spring and now it's icy in the, like, those conditions where my wife looks at me and is like, what do you, you really, you're going snowboarding

Paddy: yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy: so those, what I would call less than optimal conditions where there are no lift lines end of the day and I think about Doug Coombs with this. ' you know, you'd see Doug Coom, there'd be nobody on the mountain in, in Jackson. And then, you know, oh, there's Doug and how's it going be like, oh my God, dude, the wind buff and bac trees is so sick right now.

Paddy: yeah,

Jeremy: And, and every mountain has that person.

Paddy: for sure.

Jeremy: And then you go over there and you're like, I mean the, you definitely oversold it, but I can hold an edge.

Paddy: yeah,

Jeremy: and my teeth aren't coming outta my mouth. You know, the fillings are [00:49:00] staying

Paddy: yeah,

Jeremy: Like, that's kind of pretty fun. those kind of like mileage building love of sport days is, um, especially from a res resort perspective, that that's my, where I spend the most time at the resort is on those days.

Paddy: yeah. Every day is the best day.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I used to like cringe at the deal, like, who's the best skier on the mountain? The one having the most fun. But they,

Paddy: yeah,

Jeremy: they are, dude, it's all about fun.

Paddy: yes, yes, yes.

Jeremy: and I have this thing where, where, I mean like right now we are, the lifts aren't even spinning. Eventually they will, we'll have this white ribbon of death and people are gonna get on it.

They're gonna complain. And then I'm like, well, you know, my kids can see. And they're like, please don't. I'm like, should I go into the numbers right now? And they're like, no, do not go into the numbers. And the numbers are basically, you know, there's 8 billion plus people on the planet. How many people are skiing right now?

Maybe half a million. How many have

Paddy: You've become

Jeremy: than you? Well, Europe just [00:50:00] got snow, so they got more there, and we're probably better than such and such. And so we're in the upper 100,000 people on the planet right

Paddy: Yeah.

Jeremy: Stop fucking complaining.

Paddy: I love it. I love it.

MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

PADDYO VO:

Jeremy Jones is an award-winning filmmaker, entrepreneur, environmentalist, and snowboarding legend. The shortfilms we talked about specifically in this interview, Twilight of Adolescence and Keeping Up With The Jones', are both on Teton Gravity Research's youtube page. You should watch them, they're both great. You can follow Jeremy's bonkers adventurin' and inspiring advoczy work on Instagram at Jeremy Jones. And learn more about Protect Our Winters by visiting protect our winters dot org.

 Also, in maybe ya know this - maybe ya don't news, we are now on YouTube. You can check out video versions of these daggone podcast episodes right now. Just search [00:51:00] The Outside Podcast on YouTube so your eyeballs can consume what your earholes have been muchin' on.

And, don't forget that we want to hear from you. Sooo, email your pod reactions, guest nominations, fav outdoorsy thing you do to freak your parents out, and whatever else you want to tell and/or ask us to Outside Podcast At Outside Inc Dot Com.

The Outside Podcast is hosted and produced by me, Paddy O'Connell. But you can call me PaddyO. The show is also produced by the storytelling wizard, Micah "I taught Jeremy Jones everything he knows" Abrams. Music and Sound Design by Robbie Carver. Booking and research by Maren Larsen. And additional production support by brand new to the pod team member Jeanette Courts. Psyched to have ya!

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