Where Surfing Ends and Music Begins, with Third Eye Blind’s Stephan Jenkins

Stephan Jenkins Ep Draft

[00:00:00]

Stephan: music, the muse is got up for me. so I began to sing what it, what it sounded like. And it's, I never loved anything, uh, that didn't scare me

Paddy: Oh, that lyric. Yes, that's, that's my next question. Is that directly related to surfing?

Stephan: Yeah. Surfing scares me.

Paddy: Oh, sure. Yeah.

Stephan: Getting denied. Out at Ocean Beach, in California is like trying to paddle out. these waves are coming at me where it's like, Not only am I not gonna be able to get underneath this thing and, and get through, but I don't know if I'm gonna survive. Like, it's like holy, you know? But then, if you get it, if you harness that, it's like, you feel this, enormous sense of, of it's, I don't know what, I don't know what it is.

I better stop, don't go surfing people. It's terrible. Don't do it.

MUSIC

PADDYO VO:

In the mid-90s, the epicenter of all things cool was conveniently located across the hall, in the bedroom of my two older brothers, Sean and [00:01:00] Brendan—don’t laugh, it was the suburbs and I was in middle school. Anyway, within those hallowed walls, I was introduced to the intoxicating cultural collision of music and sports. You saw it on TV through the brand new X Games and MTV Sports, in theaters through movies like Point Break and Airborne, and you heard it through what we used to call “alternative rock”—grundge and post grunge and punk and hip hop that gave birth to the original Lollapalooza festival.

I’d eavesdrop on my brothers’ conversations about which athletes were cool, what the latest flicks were, and all the pubescent drama that played out within this milieu. And, the whole time, my face would be melting thanks to the CDs they kept popping into their boombox.

The band third Eye Blind was a staple of this era, so when I was given the opportunity to talk to their frontman, Stephan [00:02:00] Jenkins, my immediate reaction was “Hell yes!” My next reaction was, “Wait…I make a podcast about the impacts of time spent outside…how am I going to make this work?” Fortunately for me—and for you, dear listener—Stephan Jenkins had an unexpected answer to that question.

PAUSE PAUSE

Third Eye Blind’s 1997 self-titled debut album featured hits like “How’s it Gonna Be” and “Semi-Charmed Life” and went multiplatinum. And they’re no 90s footnote of a band—they’ve released nine albums and just wrapped up their most successful tour to date.

Just as a music fan, I find that kind of longevity fascinating. But it turns out that Stephan credits one thing above all others when he explains where it comes from: Surfing.

Stephan grew up in the Bay Area and has surfed since he was a kid. His connection to the ocean goes well beyond recreation, and not just because Stephan’s break of [00:03:00] choice is the notoriously big, violent, and sharky surf of San Francisco’s Ocean Beach. He’s a tireless advocate for kelp restoration along the California coastline, as well as for maintaining the public right of access to the beach that is the cornerstone of the state’s coastal management and development policies. He also regularly volunteers with the Jimmy Miller Memorial Foundation, which helps veterans treat PTSD through surfing.

This connection endlessly—even subconsciously—influences the music Stephan makes. Third Eye Blind’s music has a driving tone and an introspective bent, which sounds different to me now that I understand how much of it is connected to Stephan’s time sitting in the fog, scrambling to avoid sneaker sets, and occasionally having the sublime experience of flying along wave faces that pound the San Francisco coastline.

I might not have heard all that the first time I heard Third Eye Blind coming out of my [00:04:00] brothers’ room nearly 30 years ago, but I don’t think Stephan necessarily heard it himself back then. That’s the beauty of the wisdom you can find if you commit your life to making music, and to chasing waves.

MUSIC

Paddy: First things first, burnt toast.

What's your last humbling and or hilarious moment? Outside?

Stephan: I don't know if this one was hilarious. Well, there's something kind of funny about it. most people know that, that I'm an avid surfer, but I'm not a long boarder and I didn't learn longboarding and. Longboarding is this big longboard and it's got this big fan on it. . So it was, late in August and I went out and decided that I was gonna try longboarding. And longboarding is kind of like, it's the groovy, touchy-feely kind of, of surfing. And I wanted to get. Deeper into my touchy-feely.

Paddy: Okay.

Stephan: And so I went out uh, without a leash.

Now the leash, uh, straps around, uh, your back foot and it allows the, when you fall off the board, [00:05:00] it holds the board to you. And, I went out without a leash on my longboard as longboarders do in order to have a closer connection to my

Paddy: Yeah.

Stephan: board and my surfing experience.

Paddy: Yes, yes. The soul surfer

Stephan: And it was so soulful because I went out on my Northern California break, which is, have you ever read the book The Devil's Teeth?

Paddy: No..

Stephan: It's by Susan Casey. I highly recommend you read this book. It is a book about the, great white sharks off the Fairline Islands, which are in perfect view of my house. And it's the greatest, uh, congregation of the, the most and biggest great white sharks in the world are out cruising around this island that you can see.

And

Paddy: Very cool. Very terrifying.

Stephan: very terrifying, and they're, they're, um, hang out under the shelf, out in front of this mouth of an estuary, a lagoon that comes out from my house, um, in this little town in, Marin, California. and they like to come out in the fog and,

i, I decide to go paddle out here and surf, on my [00:06:00] longboard without my leash in order to get my deeper connection to the ocean.

Paddy: I'm just hearing the jaws song in my head right now and I'm nervous.

Stephan: so, did I, Paddy.

So, so I go out there and I'm feeling this real sense of, the wildness, uh, of the ocean, you don't really see anything out because it's, it's foggy and the shore kind of recedes as well in the mist.

And I see this, this rise coming up and there's my wave and I spin and I take it and I try to walk on the board without my leash getting my closer relationship with it. And I fuck the whole thing up, spit the board forward, and the board gets a closer relationship with the ocean by surfing perfectly, 400 yards into the ocean.

And then I start thinking without me,

Paddy: Jesus.

Stephan: now I'm in the ocean. Is this the kind of thing you're looking for? This is what we're talking about.

Paddy: yeah, oh God. My [00:07:00] hands are very clammy right now. This

Stephan: So now I'm in the ocean

Paddy: awful.

Stephan: and, I know the shore is that way, but it's foggy. And I also know that, it's that fall time of year where the, you know, oh, the sharks don't want you. but the dumb, the dumb ones, the teenagers, they're, they're small. They're only like nine feet.

Um, but they still have a chainsaw attached to their face. They, they're stupid, they're teenagers and they might just come in and check it out, but it's being checked by a chainsaw, you

Paddy: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Stephan: I'm, so now I go from like this sense of being like, I'm in nature and wildness to, I'm in God's country and I start swimming towards what I know is the shore.

But I also know, that. they, they sense fear. So I'm told, so what I do is I'm swimming, in towards the show shore trying to show with my little legs dangling in the ocean that I'm tough. So I go, I'm swearing at them.

Paddy: Really[00:08:00]

Stephan: I'm swearing at sharks. Yeah. This is this, this is what you're looking for.

Paddy: this is the best. This is. This is great. I mean, it sounds

Stephan: swimming into the shore going like this. I'm going, fuck you guys. Yeah, I got it on. I got in there and I have never surfed without a leash sense.

Paddy: did you get the board back or no?

Stephan: Oh yeah. Board was just sitting there

Paddy: Yes. Yeah, totally. Oh man. Oh God, this is, this is great. That was awesome. I mean, that sounds awful, but that was awesome. Alright, let's get into it.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Can you give me the 30 second elevator pitch of the best wave that you've ever surfed? ,

Stephan: The best wave, 30 seconds I have ever surfed. I was not on. I volunteer, when I can for the Marine Corps teaching, service members, Marines who have suffered from PTSD surfing and we use surfing as therapy. And I'm not a [00:09:00] therapist. I'm really not even a very, good surf coach. but we just go out and surf together.

That's all. That's all we do. And I was at a JSO Bay Base in Hawaii and I had a sergeant, . She had this real distant look on her face and she was wearing a, a rash guard and I saw the rash curtain come up and her back had been on fire.

Paddy: Ugh.

Stephan: And, I just got this sense of like, don't touch you, don't you just, but we went out.

It's awkward. Surfing is very difficult. Even though these guys are all just, you know, fantastic athletes and willing to go, they have a real sense of, like you say, go. They're gonna, they're gonna go. They're gonna go on the, they're not gonna hold back. Comes out, we fumble around, um, trying to get into a wave.

A wave comes, I kind of get her into it. She gets out, she falls off, she comes right back out and she still has this distance. She's still someplace else. I see another wave that looks really good. I'm like, I'm like, turn around. Turn around. Let's go. She turns around, she gets in, she surfs it, and she comes back out.

The third wave is a bomb. It is a [00:10:00] beautifully shaped wave. It's got a ramp, it's creamy, smooth, it's glassy, and it's not really big. I mean, it's a, you know, it's, it's a maybe shoulder high, which is actually when you're a beginner, surfer is a solid wave because it's when you, when you're surfing it, it's up on it.

Up here, we work, we work 500 times. Just, just to keep, you know, it, just to get the water to not go flying up your nose, to not flip over the front of the board. To not take it to the face. No one spared from any of these things to get that moment where you drop in and you're, you're in the glass. And what happens in that moment is you're no place else in all the other places in your life.

The cobwebs will come in in every moment. It's only in that moment when you drop, when you drop into the green, where you are completely united in with your mind, the movement of your body and nature in this gift that comes in as a sign wave from the sun. [00:11:00] You're here. She dropped into that wave I'm yelling.

I'm like, I'm like, go. I'm drop your, drop your knees. Drop your knees. There you go. Pop it, you got it. And she surfed that whole thing and she came back out. it gets me emotional to even talk about it. Every single time

Paddy: so cool.

Stephan: she comes back out and her face was like, ah, like that she was here again.

Paddy: Uhhuh.

Stephan: She, she came home.

Paddy: Uh,

Stephan: Best wave I ever had.

Paddy: that's really cool that your favorite wave of your life is someone else's wave. And I'm wondering if that translates all to my next question, which is that, you know, you've been playing concerts of every single shape and size since the early nineties. So what is your favorite performance or

Stephan: Late nineties,

Paddy: well,

Stephan: you're dating me. Yeah. Late nineties. Yeah. Uhhuh in the, in the early nineties. I was playing, well, I was playing concerts for, um, you know, maybe 60 people would be like banging night. Yeah, that's

Paddy: yeah. Like you started [00:12:00] gigging when you were first starting out. Right? And, and then, and then you, fast forward, you know, a couple decades later and you're in Key Largo playing to, you know, a couple thousand folks or whatever, you know.

So what's your favorite performance or onstage moment?

Stephan: My favorite onstage moment. Oh my God. Um, you know, Paddy, the moment is almost always the same. The moment is when, it's that same kind of, of joining of all things where I feel a real sense of empathy with my band.

That we are, we're locked in with each other.

Paddy: Yeah.

Stephan: And, somehow when that happens, my pitch becomes perfect and I feel like I could hit any note and anything in between. and my body feels connected and rooted. And I feel like that is in this exchange with the audience is always kind of what we're looking for and things become kind of golden.

So it's always sort of looking for that, cultivating in everything that you do in your day to be [00:13:00] eligible for that kind of moment. But Paddy, the first thing that came into my mind was I walked onto stage once and it was like a, a festival and, it was at night and this woman from the radio station had this big white fake fur coat.

I go, give your coat. Um, and I said it like that, give your coat. And she gives me the coat. I put the coat on and then, and I walk out just like this pimp walk, like I'm. king of the world and I start walking around and I'm, I'm singing, um, losing a whole year. I remember what song I was singing and it's just kind of this like rock thing back and forth.

And I look over to the right and David Bowie is standing on the side of the stage with this hand on his face in the same way that you are. He was kind of bemused like this. He's looking at me like this and he's looking right at me. And I'm not starstruck by people or politicians. I don't give a fuck.

Paddy: Yeah.

Stephan: I looked over at him and I just kind of melted. I was like, [00:14:00] oh, oh, oh, yeah, buy your leave, sir. Like, I completely like it. If I'm doing as long as it's okay with you,

Paddy: Would you would care for the microphone, sir? Was he just, was he floating in a, like a golden orb, like above the ground? Yeah, of course. Frigging Bowie,

Stephan: he came out later. And, you know, I don't, I don't think you can do this without, at some level thinking that, you haven't, like, you're the shit, like, I think it's like that with athletics or anything else.

Paddy: Yeah,

Stephan: you really, like, you have to have a free sense of yourself.

and I walked out and he started with Jean Jeanie. Jean Jeanie. He started with that and he just started and he's looking, he's looking down and I am standing there watching him and I'm just, uh, I don't know. There you

Paddy: in total awe. Yeah. I mean,

Stephan: in awe.

Paddy: yeah, I mean, so, you know, wave of your life, moment on stage of your life watching Bowie being transcendent

Stephan: me.[00:15:00]

Paddy: Yeah. Like, yeah. Just like, oh my God, this is, which is more meaningful or impactful for you overall? Or do they both combine into one thing?

Stephan: I think there's a huge similarity between them. I think, I think that surfing it, it doesn't last very long. If you get a wave for 50 seconds, that's a really long,

Paddy: That's a lifetime. Yeah,

Stephan: that's a long ride. And then you get, if you get 10 of those in a two hour session, you had a really good session.

Paddy: sure,

Stephan: So it's not very much time, but it expands. The time expands and, we will go out and play for two hours. And even in your day, that's not that much time, but it's every, I live for it. To, be in this moment where, uh, the audience lifts out of themselves and comes into a collective state of feeling.

There are similarities in those things, and I think that they, at, at some, uh, deep, energetic, emotional level, um, help each other.

Paddy: I, I think there's significant overlap [00:16:00] here between what you do for your profession and what you do for your passion. What brings more anticipatory excitement Hanging backstage while 20,000 screaming fans wait for you, or seeing the perfect wave roll into the set

Stephan: Oh, definitely. The, the wave of rolling into the set.

Paddy: really.

Stephan: Yeah. Yeah. Because, , I think there are people who look at, at, at live performance in different ways. Some people look at it, at it as this means of sort of, narcissistic ego gratification.

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Stephan: They can make thank great performers. That's really possible, to be, really shiny and seductive in that. And then, I think for me, what I'm looking to do is, it's a little bit more like being a chef, where what I'm trying to do is, build up something

look, I like being cheered at. It's great. But it's, for me, live performance is about being in the state of, connection that builds something, in the audience. And I see their faces, I see your true face. Your true face is [00:17:00] beautiful.

Paddy: Hmm.

Stephan: And I'll see people when we're playing, they let go of all this other stuff.

They stop fighting over real estate, you know, to get up front, all this crap, right? they just, transcend. But they transcend together.

Paddy: Hmm.

Stephan: It's to see that is what I really look for. before I go out on stage, I'm not sitting there with nerves. In the, in the sense of like, oh no, they're gonna see me.

I'm gonna be exposed. I'm thinking about, am I in a musical state where I'm ready to send it? But I do believe, you know, some extreme example of playing music in front of people or, you know, or surfing in these are, these are, extreme examples of finding a place where, you are

restarted. with a, state of connectivity and aliveness and find that in your life, or you will disappear. And when I say disappear, what I mean is that your whole frontal cortex will get taken [00:18:00] up with all of the faf and admin of life that is actually the cloud in front of you, and you just become that cloud of stuff.

so whatever it is in your life, hiking up the hills and, uh, to the park and hearing the birds, whatever that, whatever those moments are, of getting a hold of the combination of stillness and aliveness in yourself. Find it, uh, because finding that is actually keeping hold of yourself.

Paddy: do you hear that listeners? Steven says, go outside, find yourself.

Stephan: Yeah. There you go.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: There are a lot of different surfing styles, just like there are a lot of different music styles. can you describe your style in both?

Are they the same?

Stephan: No, they're not. , I surf a lot in Northern California, so there's a certain amount of, um, warmth, but also like, it's almost being like a swimmer. You know, you remember in high school the, the swimmers were always almost wearing pajamas. Everything was so loose so they could get it [00:19:00] on and kind of get it off.

I think about surf wax and also, sunblock, the sunblock I use tends to have kind of a tint, to it, and it gets on your clothes. So, what I wear in surfing is it's kind of ratty. and, it's not so much advertising itself, but you also know that I'm a surfer because there's this kind of loose, it tends to be, uh, tends to be flannel.

Um,

Paddy: I feel like you're describing, like you're saying, like basically that, surfing style is, grunge,

Stephan: That is exactly what I am saying, Paddy.

Paddy: Me is like your music style as well.

Stephan: My surfing style is grunge. My music style is post grunge.

Paddy: Okay.

Stephan: See, it's different.

Paddy: Yeah. Yeah. You're like, I'm early nineties in the water and I'm late nineties on stage, bro.

Stephan: Yes.

Paddy: Okay, perfect.

Stephan: you actually kind of pegged it.

Paddy: Do you feel like you seek out surfing in order to fuel your music, or does the music come almost [00:20:00] as a byproduct of your desire to be in the ocean?

Stephan: I don't think the connection between them, has that much sinew to it. I think it's much, much more ethereal. I think there's something about finding something in the vastness, in music and in the ocean and just waiting and trying to get in connection. that really

matters to me

Paddy: well, which, one is more of the fountain of youth, creativity, songwriting, performing, or surfing?

Stephan: Well, I don't know. I'm, I'm 27 and I haven't really pondered these, these questions of mortality Paddy, get back me, come back to me in say, 15

Paddy: I will. Okay.

Stephan: and we'll talk about it then. And I'll be saying,

Paddy: yeah,

Stephan: eh, what's that? She say,

Paddy: yeah, once, once you start referring to your pants as house trousers, uh, I will, I will

Stephan: where do they go? Those pants of mine.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: Let's talk the specifics of songwriting and [00:21:00] music because I feel like the feeling of riding waves informs your music.

It shows up in your music. You know, you've said the song Weightless from We Are Drugs, was Surf Inspired. That song. Absolutely rocks to me has all these elements of alternative rock that like remind me of standing outside of my brother's room and being like, this is really cool. You know, and hearing these, you know, these distorted guitars and these, these mushy drums, but also that song weightless has some like sneaky surfy vibes.

There's like pucky, wet Reverby guitars hiding out behind the big sounds in there. So does that just flow out of you, or are you consciously trying to make the ocean come to life in a tune like that?

Stephan: Okay. You're actually kind of tripping me out right now

Paddy: oh

Stephan: that is the most specific. On point. This is kind of what surfing feels like to me. Like that ba ba ba[00:22:00]

Paddy: yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Stephan: is like, being in the, in the energy., That song is really about going on one of those summer surf trips where I'm all kind of spread out and I've been out for, months and I'm away from, the weight of relationships, um, the weight of the rhythms of, my regular life.

And I've just kind of become expanded. And so I'm in that, in that energy. But, but what is it rooted in as, Is the end is kind of the melancholy of the song. So there's like, all of these things kind of come together and part of, part of what trips do is they make us, be able to see home with fresh eyes.

But it's also about just the, feeling the excitement, of being, you know, in that energy the connections between people, the lightness of them, it is all there. So I'm sort of, but it doesn't say so. So I'm really interested that you sort of picked up on that as, you know, directly as kind of a,

Paddy: Well, I, to me, I just, I like you can hear that classic [00:23:00] surf guitar tone, like hiding out. in the soft spots of the song, which there aren't many 'cause the song rocks. So did you write that on a surf trip?

Stephan: No. Um, what happened was I came back, we were in the studio and I think Colin played No, Chris, Chris or Colin played that. Mm. And my mind and my consciousness went to that. It sounded to me, like that feeling.

The riff sounded like the feeling, the riff. I was, I was you, I was that little kid standing outside the door hearing that sound.

Paddy: yeah.

Stephan: and, the reason why it's scaring me be is because music, the muse is got up for me. so I began to sing what it, what it sounded like. And it's, I never loved anything, uh, that didn't scare me

Paddy: Oh, that lyric. Yes, that's, that's my next question. Is that directly related to surfing?

Stephan: Yeah. Surfing scares [00:24:00] me.

Paddy: Oh, sure. Yeah.

Stephan: Getting denied. Out at Ocean Beach, in California is like trying to paddle out. these waves are coming at me where it's like, Not only am I not gonna be able to get underneath this thing and, and get through, but I don't know if I'm gonna survive. Like, it's like holy, you know? But then, if you get it, if you harness that, it's like, you feel this, enormous sense of, of it's, I don't know what, I don't know what it is.

I better stop, don't go surfing people. It's terrible. Don't do it.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: I want to talk about a rhythm and tone shift from something like weightless, which is a really hard driving tune. Um, but on the other end of the tempo spectrum is a song like To the Sea, which is like very slowed down and synthy and ethereal, and you really feel this like floatiness and, undulation in the tune.

So like, where does a song like that come from? Are the tempo differences between a tune like weightless and a tune, like [00:25:00] to the Sea supposed to represent kind of like how one day the ocean can be this like gnarling monster and the next, it's like this like inviting, warm, plush teddy bear, you know, instead of the rocking rollercoaster.

Stephan: Who are you? You're really good at this?

Paddy: Oh, tha

Stephan: What? don't you just become a music? You should become a, uh, why don't you fucking work for Rolling Stone? What the fuck?

Paddy: Oh, well, that, that, that's a very nice com. I, I very much appreciate that. I, I am a, uh,

Stephan: Good for you.

Paddy: I'm a huge music fan and a word nerd and, uh, yeah. So,

Stephan: the answer to your question is not on purpose, but yes. I,

I'm not trying to make, An opera where through the course of songs I'm making an arc. If that happens, great. my songs are more like pottery, where I'm making this pot. and then that one might invite throw in the next one.

I take the ocean as [00:26:00] inspiration and I have my whole life it inspires in different ways and I just, and I'm permeable to that. So, I want to go to the ocean, send a postcard on my loneliness. Forgetting you is so elusive. I run away, but it's always this and Seeing that expanse where, you're in a place looking out at the infinity of it, you have a place of contemplation, of suspension

Paddy: Hmm.

Stephan: where you can be in stillness and let who you are in that moment actually take hold

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: PADDYO VO:

More from surfer and rock star Stephan Jenkins after the break.

MIDROLL MIDROLL MIDROLL MIDROLL MIDROLL MIDROLL MIDROLL MIDROLL MIDROLL

Both art and outdoor pursuits are really influenced by place. And you grew up in the Bay Area and you once said, I'm San Francisco to the bone, which I love.

And I wanna dig into that. And I've heard that there's two [00:27:00] kinds of San Francisco surfers, those who surf Ocean Beach, and those who do not, it sounds to me like you surf ocean Beach. So for those listeners out there who don't know just how gnarly and scary this place is, can you describe. Why Ocean Beach has the reputation that it does amongst surfers.

Stephan: Yeah, I can. However,

it's true that There are the surfers who surf Ocean Beach, and there are those who

Paddy: Yes.

Stephan: within the category of those who do they're the category of surfers who surf Ocean Beach at 15 feet and above. And those who don't,

Paddy: Okay. And you

Stephan: I don't, yeah. The only double hold down, and for those of you who don't know, a hold down is where you, get hit by a wave

Paddy: Terrifying the worst.

Stephan: and now at Ocean Beach, I don't know what, I don't understand the hydraulic there, but you just get pinned to [00:28:00] the sand.

And so one way this holds you down, and say on a, maybe a 11 second interval, you've got 11 seconds. To get back to, the surface and get a breath before the next one comes. The only time I've had a double one of those was at Ocean Beach, and it was like seven feet.

So it's, you know, I mean, that's solid wave, but it's not,

Paddy: But the hydraulics underneath are just

Stephan: whatever it was, I couldn't get back. Yeah. And the, and the board was tombstone and, um, and, um, I was out with a big wave surfer, uh, Joel de Ed, and he was watching my, my board Tombstone. Tombstone means the board sticking out of the water like this, which means you're under it.

Um, and you ain't coming

Paddy: dude.

Stephan: And I missed that one. And then I got back up and I did, I did continue paddling out and he was like, oh, I thought you were gonna go in. And I went back out, just, you know, because I didn't want the shame of not going out. But I'm just saying there's a certain point where there's a crew that [00:29:00] goes out when it's really big. And, and I know those guys and I surf with those guys on other days where I don't. Um, so I don't

Paddy: big and too gnarly.

Stephan: There's other places where, you know when it's 10 feet, at, um, impossibles in Bali, I love it. It's great that thing's a cruisy and super, super fun. 10 foot, ocean Beach is different. Why? It'll hold any size and there are multiple breaks getting out.

So when you get out to, um, the first one where the waves are hitting you, you're gonna start doing duck dives. you might do 20. But the waves are getting bigger, so you've got a bigger board that you've gotta dip. You've gotta get this board underneath the wave and pull it under, and then move it forward underneath the energy of the wave and try to get out the other side, lest you get pulled back.

But if you're kind of a average Joe surfer like me, you're gonna get pulled back some. So you're gonna do that forward backwards 20, 30 times before you get to the second break. And in the second break, when it's big, you're [00:30:00] probably going to, you, I will probably get knocked off the board. But you are next to the San Francisco Bay, which is one of the in biggest inland bodies of water in the world.

And that bay is either filling or draining. And either way, it's pulling water

and when it pulls water, it could keep you from going out, by pushing in, or can suck you out. Into a rip that will pull you way out there. And as it's pulling you out, you get hit by another wave and another wave and another wave before you get lined up.

But there are no channels on Ocean Beach. There's no really, they, there're constantly moving. So there's no place where you are sitting where it's like, you're all good. You,

Paddy: you could take a breather.

Stephan: you're not all good. But you've gone out, you've been paddling and paddling and paddling and working this.

And for me it can take me, you know, times has taken me 35, 40 minutes, 40 minutes of just work to get out to this place. And then I get out there and it looks like to me, [00:31:00] just to me, average Joe Surfer that I am, it looks like a house that's coming at me. It looks like a building. And I will say to myself, sometimes I'm not safe out here because I'm actually exhausted.

And it's usually in that moment where I'll see big wave surfer, Bianca Valenti out there and

Paddy: Oh, the boss. She's so

Stephan: Oh yeah. She's, um, yeah, she's, she's our core lord and she's out there kind of swallowing like, you good?

Paddy: You cool man. You cool?

Stephan: I was like, no, I'm going in.

Paddy: am not, my shoulders are on fire. My neck's have fire

Stephan: yeah. This is too heavy.

Paddy: Terrified. So, I mean, I mean, okay. So then what's the deal here with this place? Because it seems like it's so easy to get a beat down. It's so terrifying. So do you have a moment or a wave out there where you're like, ah, this is the triumph and this is the thing that keeps bringing me back? Or are you still seeking that?

Stephan: I mean, yeah. But those days for me have all always been like. In September where it's kind of head high and [00:32:00] it's, it's glassy and you know, like it's one of the four days where people are on the beach in bikinis going like, Hey, volleyball's great, you should try it. You know, like it's so elusive those days.

Um, but I, I get out there and, I feel the energy of it and it's wildness right off my city. And, I keep, I keep coming back, I keep, I keep trying within my limits.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: Your sense of place or belonging to San Francisco, I think has also greatly pulled you into environmentalism. And you do a ton of give back work.

I call it like you've been trying to improve and protect the California coast since you were a kid and that, and of this work, you've said the happiness you get from volunteering surpasses that of any personal success. Now that as a quote. About that work makes you seem like very dedicated to, , volunteering, philanthropy, environmentalism.

And it also just makes you seem just like a really solid dude, to be honest. but it does not [00:33:00] jive

Stephan: so much virtue sig signaling here. I don't have to do a

Paddy: You're so

Stephan: I could just quit. I'm out.

Paddy: I mean, it's like that quote or just the idea of philanthropy and volunteering doesn't really jive with this idea that most of us have in our head with like a hard rocking rockstar.

So how exactly has surf culture and surf culture in the Bay Area fostered this desire for you to give back?

Stephan: I don't know how else you complete the circle.

Paddy: Hmm.

Stephan: when you experience something that is magnificent and it's only unto yourself, I don't think you are in a, whole state of happiness. and I think

what we get from the ocean makes us stewards of it, makes us bodyguards of it. And, protecting it,

and sharing it in the way that we do is a source of happiness,

is a source of completing that circle to me.

Paddy: it's this, yeah. I mean, it's, it's almost like what you're saying is this is like the, like if a tree fell in the woods, you know, does it make [00:34:00] a sound if no one's around? What you're kind of saying it seems like to me is like, is it as happy as happiness can be? Is it cranked all the way to 10 if you didn't share it?

Stephan: It's not, I don't think so,

There is wildness out there.

And wildness is something that I believe is core to. Us as human beings and us as Americans, that, we lose ourselves when we lose it. 90 plus percent of the great kelp forest in California that I grew up

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Stephan: is gone. It's wiped out. There's something like 5% left. as a recurring mission of mine to try to do my small part in bringing that back and we will bring it back.

and that gives me a sense of, completion of that circle of wholeness and happiness

Paddy: Does it feel like a responsibility?

Stephan: part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:35:00] Um, but it's like, you know, when you, you walk up the beach and there's, some piece of, plastic trash check how you feel when you walk past it to when you actually pick it up dirty.

Little piece of shit. You get some, you get some, like, you get some, you know, you get some bottle and you go, okay, well this isn't now gonna be wrapped up you know, swallowed by one of, the sea lions out here and now I'm gonna go, uh, carrying, so I'm carrying up the beach. I feel better. That's the difference. Happiness.,

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

When I was in high school, my brother and I would get our scuba tanks and we would drive over from Palo Alto, which is fairly far away from the ocean, and we would drive out there and we would go scuba diving just to explore, just to be in that, wildness and wonderment in that world. How does it change you? I feel a much deeper sense of ownership. It's mine. The California coast is mine, and when there's, this total insanity of these oil leases going off, off the coast, [00:36:00] completely unnecessary. My sense is that's not yours to take.

Paddy: Hmm.

Stephan: That's not yours to take. This is mine. This is ours. This is part of our collective wealth. This is part of who we are and part of who we are. Our requirement is to pass it down. Improved otherwise, we ourselves are, are diminished. So how do I feel? I support a group called Sea Trees.

I support, I support the Smith Lab in at uc, San Diego. I support, the development of, the Sea Star returning them to San Francisco and abalone fishermen. I feel that it is something gives me, a deeper sense of place. And if you don't have that, I just think you're kind of a mess

Paddy: Well, I'm, I'm smiling because I feel like this is the coolest form of surfer localism. and territorialism that I've ever heard. You know, like, get your oil rig off our wave, bro. You're not [00:37:00] from here. This is cool.

Stephan: Yeah, ' but I want kids to know, I want Gen Z and I want Gen Alpha whether they surf or not. To understand that, the ocean is yours. It's not somebody else's. It's not something that's el, it's not available to be taken from you.

Paddy: Right,

Stephan: It's part of your wealth.

And that also goes, for our chestnut for forests in the, in the appalachias. It goes for, the redwoods, the old growths, that are left, those are yours. Those parks are yours. They're not somebody else's.

Take it, own it.

Paddy: yeah.

Stephan: be at some

Paddy: Protect it.

Stephan: responsible for

Paddy: Yeah. Stick up for it. Yeah.

Stephan: because it is, because it is yours to protect.

that's how it exists. And it's, I think it's, a different sense of what wealth is.

Paddy: Mm-hmm.

Stephan: part of what's happened in this country is, wealth has become skewed, to a level for people who don't understand what wealth is. Wealth, money is a store of value. [00:38:00] It's not a game to be played with a couple of other people for ego gratification.

Paddy: Mm

Stephan: The store of value, for example, are, the wild spaces of Montana. That's the wealth and it's yours and it, it should be part of, who you are. ' cause if it's not, you're fucked.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: Do you think that there is, Steven, the musician, if there is not Steven, the surfer? Steven, the Wave Rider who protects the ocean and passes on the passion of surfing.

Stephan: I've never thought about that, but I don't think so. No, no. You know, I don't make surf rock. I don't sit around and write music for surf culture. I just write music because it's what I do.

Paddy: Yeah.

Stephan: But. I think rock music is about, rebellion and aliveness and about saying, I'm here in whatever flawed state I'm in, and it requires a youthful kind of energy. And you see, most artists, kind of run out. They make three [00:39:00] records, um, in a few years.

And, and the, the juice is kind of gone. I don't feel that way. and I do believe that, you know, my friends, are surfers and this is how we, this is, this is how we're in rhythm and commun commune with each other. I think, um, I actually kind of would dry up if I didn't Yeah. Is the answer.

Yeah.

Paddy: You've chased really big things in life. art success tours, hits awards, melting the faces of thousands of screaming fans all at once. Why do you think joy for you though, shows up most clearly in something as simple as a single wave, a single moment in the ocean?

Stephan: I think it's just about purity. It is this, a single ex expression of, this brief moment of being in this body and being in this body when, it's strong and vital, fully present in the moment, in a state of aliveness. when that bump from the sun comes down, mixed up, bump [00:40:00] travels across the ocean, and just every once in a while you're in the space to connect to it.

is the reason. it's just the moments of purity.

Paddy: Mm.

Stephan: And getting beat up by the locals.

Paddy: That's right.

Stephan: Yeah.

Paddy: Just moment of purity and avoiding headbutts.

That's it.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

It is now time for the final ramble.

One piece of gear that you cannot live without

Stephan: Fake grass. yes. You kids, you can get it at Proof lab in Mill Valley. Fake grass. So when you go surfing.

Paddy: this is. It's wild.

Stephan: this is very important, Paddy. Listen up. You guys, uh, you get out of the car and you're in a parking lot. Well, you don't wanna get somebody else's parking lot on your feet.

So what do you do? You put down your own 24, uh, square inch lawn, and then you put your feet in there and you kind of, kind of wipe off the sand and the grime,

Paddy: my word. This is so smart.

Stephan: flops.

Paddy: This is so smart.

Stephan: fake grass.

Paddy: this is so smart. I love [00:41:00] that. That's such a good answer. Okay,

Stephan: Just got that one for you.

Paddy: I like this. This is great. How about this Best outdoor snack.

Stephan: Coffee.

Paddy: Ugh, can I tell you something? Thank

Stephan: Does anybody ever say

Paddy: No one says coffee. No one has ever said coffee on this show, and it's my favorite thing to put in my mouth.

Stephan: You people in your stupid fucking trail mix. You don't need raisins

Paddy: I'm so sick of people saying Gorp.

Stephan: Yeah.

Paddy: I love

Stephan: know, you just kind of sit there. It's, it's like where I'm from, it's cold, so you just kind of, you know, you

Paddy: so

Stephan: coffee and you kind of check it and then look there, and then you're all jacked up and ready to

Paddy: I love it. And I'm like a, I'm like a carafe and a half type of dude. Every day, all

Stephan: It's the only drug I have left,

Paddy: Yeah. Touche. Same

Stephan: all, all the cool kids don't drink, so I don't drink

Paddy: Yeah. What is your hottest outdoor hot take?

Stephan: It is sex. What do you think the outdoors is for people? this is [00:42:00] my hot take.

Is wildness, it's aliveness. That's, that is sex.

all of it. so it's like,

Paddy: is sex.

Stephan: yeah,

Paddy: your hot take.

Stephan: That's my,

Paddy: D I mean, legitimately that is the spiciest take we've had on this show.

Stephan: that's what it is.

Paddy: That is the Triple X take.

Stephan: all these guys are thinking, oh, you guys, you're nutty, crunchy, and you know, falafel mix. It's like, no, bro.

No,

Paddy: I go outside because I'm horny. You heard it here first. People. Steven Jenkins is an outdoorsy horn ball.

Stephan: That's right

MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

Stephan Jenkins is the singer, guitarist, and primary songwriter for the alternative rock band Third Eye Blind, writing or co-writing every song in the band’s catalog. He is also a surfer who cares deeply about protecting the ocean and passing on the passion of riding [00:43:00] waves, as exemplified by his lifelong work to protect the California Coast supporting kelp reforestation and plastic reduction, and his work with the Jimmy Miller Memorial Foundation, teaching surfing to veterans with PTSD. Keep up with his surfing and music on Instagram at Stephan Jenkins and at Third Eye Blind. And check out upcoming tour dates by visiting third eye blind dot com.

Also, did you know that this podcast is on Youtube? You betcha we are. So  check out the video episodes of the show at Outside Podcast 1 on YouTube. And smash that subscribe button...I think that's what the kids call it anywho...

And, remember that we want to hear from you. Sooo, email your pod reactions, guest nominations, the sport alternative rock music inspires you to do, and whatever else you want to tell and/or ask us to Outside Podcast At Outside Inc Dot Com.

The Outside [00:44:00] Podcast is hosted and produced by me, Paddy O'Connell. But you can call me PaddyO. The show is also produced by the storytelling wizard, Micah "just like Third Eye Blind, I too am considered post grunge" Abrams. Music and Sound Design by Robbie Carver. Booking and research by Jeanette Courts, with additional production support by Maren Larsen.

The Outside Podcast is made possible by our Outside Plus members. Learn about all the extra rad benefits and become a member yourself at Outside Online Dot Com Slash Pod Plus.

Paddy: When you're planning a tour, are you ever like, guys, I think we should play the North Shore. and then maybe from there we go to Tahiti.

Like, do you plan surf spots into your tour?

Stephan: All the fucking time.

Paddy: That's really

Stephan: gotta go.

Paddy: That's really smart. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Soundcheck. See you guys. Yeah, you guys, you guys got soundcheck, right? It's pumping right Now I gotta

Stephan: Something. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Thanks for having [00:45:00] me.

Paddy: Oh dude. Awesome. Thanks man.

Stephan: Thanks Paddy.